Package Shipping From USA To Russia? 222
The following words are from Pavel Koshevoy:
About a month ago I got an e-mail from a friend of mine in Khabarovsk, Far East Russia. We were classmates until about 5 years ago, so we brought each other up to date on what we are up to. He recently got his diploma in CS so I asked him if he had a chance to play with Linux. He hadn't and was unwilling to install it because of the shortage of diskspace on his Win98 box. So, I decided to put together an upgrade package for him and did so from new and used parts (total value about $300). Now...how do you ship it?
After talking to DHL with unsatisfactory results, I decided to try UPS. I called them up and ask whether I can ship a $300 package to Khabarovsk, Russia, and be able to pay the duties on that myself. They said yes and set me up with a UPS account which costs $45 a year (to do this with DHL, you have to be a business, no exceptions). Not bad, I thought, so Aug. 22 I shipped the package (after spending hours filling forms, of course) and happily send a tracking number to my friend telling him how he could track it over the Web.
Two days later I check up on the UPS tracking Web page and discover this:
| Aug 24, 2000 6:51 P.M. LOUISVILLE INTL, KY, US TRANSFER NOTIFICATION FOR INFO FOR DELIV |
| 5:00 P.M. MOSCOW, RU VALUE OF COMMODITY EXCEEDS LIMITS |
| 3:28 P.M. MOSCOW, RU VALUE OF COMMODITY EXCEEDS LIMITS |
| 2:59 P.M. MOSCOW, RU DESTINATION SCAN |
| 2:59 P.M. MOSCOW, RU FORMAL ENTRY REQUIRD FOR HIGH VALUE SHPT |
| 1:20 P.M. MOSCOW, RU VALUE OF COMMODITY EXCEEDS LIMITS;EXCEPTION RESOLUTION NOTIFICATION-OPEN |
So, I call UPS and ask them about my package? The operator tells me that there seems to be a restriction on packages going into Russia, that the value of the package has to be under $100 when it is shipped anywhere except 5 cities: Moscow, Nizhnij Novgorod, Krasnodar, Novorossiysk, Togliatti and St. Petersburg. Packages sent to these five cities can be valued as high as $10,000. Later, another UPS rep calls and tells me that the package is valued over $100 and will not be accepted, and wanted to know if I would pay $164.25 to get it back. Eventually I convince UPS to return my package free of charge, however there was still the question of the original $184.25 charges from UPS for the shippment. Until today (2000/09/13) this was still up in the air. I would call UPS and complain, they would put in an urgent message to my account executive, and nothing would happen. This went on for two weeks. When I finally got a real person who could authorize a refund, she was not willing to do it for the full amount. She claimed that since I had a UPS account, I was responsible for knowing about the $100 limit, never mind that I opened the account with one goal in mind - to be able to send the package and pay the duties so that my friend wouldn't have to. However at this point I was too frustrated with them, so we agreed to go 50/50.
Then she sent me an e-mail which wound me up even more: the $100 limit includes the shipping charges.
This is the first time I was ever told this. Up until now I was going to split my package into three packages and resend them separately. You have to realise that the lowest shipping cost to Russia is $77.50, and that's for a 1 lb. package. Plus, there is a $20 surcharge for shipment to Russia for a total of $97.50. With the $100 restriction in place the value of the package must be at or below $2.50! Something is clearly very wrong here.
Effectively, UPS cannot ship packages of any reasonable value higher than $2.50 to any cities in Russia except the five I have mentioned, Furthermore, when looking through the UPS RATE AND SERVICE GUIDE I could not find anywhere mention of this restriction. No, instead, Russia is put in the same category as Norhtern Mariana Islands, Papua New Guinea, Poland, Romania, Slovakia and Solomon Islands. Do all those destinations also have the same restriction on the value of the package?
So, I insisted on the full refund, and I've got it with a warning that this is a one-time deal and they will not do it for me again. Even though I've got my money back, I am still upset at UPS over the grief they put me through. I opened an account with them just so I could send this package and pay duties for it. Their service guide should not even list Russia as far as I am concerned. Even more puzzling is the exception that they have made for the other five cities.
I still want to send this package to my friend, so if anyone has any ideas I would like to hear them, please.
Sincerely, Pavel (Paul) Koshevoy
Re:Russia (Score:1)
We've learned that sending troops into a fucked up place usually just results in a fucked up place with a lot more guns, violence and destruction (Kosovo, El Salvador, Afganistan, Chechnya).
We've learned that imposing sancions on a fucked up place just results in a very poor, fucked up place (Iraq).
Sending aid to a fucked up country just results in the leader getting more power to fuck up the country more (every African country).
Re:What about plain old mail? (Score:1)
...And a typewriter a computer ain't.
http://ircalc.usps.gov/prohibitions/Russia.htm
Prohibitions for Russia
Perishable infectious biological substances.
Perishable noninfectious biological substances.
Radioactive materials.
Firearms and ammunition, explosives, combat weapons.
Printed materials, plates, negatives, developed films, photographs, movies, video recordings, magnetic computer information storage media, manuscripts, records and other sound recordings, drawings and other printed materials, and forms of plastic art politically or economically damaging to the country.
Pornographic, vulgar, and erotic materials.
Russian and foreign currency, government securities and Russian lottery tickets, Russian Vnieshposyltorg and Vniesheconombanque checks.
Eurocheck system forms and access cards.
Undeveloped movies and photographic films, photographic plates and paper.
Eggs, honey, pollen, wax, honeycomb.
High frequency radio-electronic devices (transmitters and receivers) regardless of strength, high frequency ultrasound equipment, and generators for industrial, scientific, and medical use, and location detection devices used to measure transportation speed.
Copying/reproduction equipment (with the exception of typewriters).
Prices are the same (Score:3)
username auction (offtopic) (Score:1)
Well, maybe not. But it would be interesting.
Re:UPS Sucks! (Score:2)
At least with FedEx you can always go and pick it up that evening.
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Re:UPS Sucks! (Score:2)
Tried it a couple of times - no luck any time. I don't know anyone who has managed to do it with the UPS depot near where I live.
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Re:Have your cake and eat it, too. (Score:1)
The saying is
"Eat your cake and have it too"
It makes a lot more sense when you think about it (:
And isn't it "capish"?
FascDot Killed My Previous Login (Score:2)
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Re:FedEx (Score:1)
Re:FedEx (Score:1)
Re:Ask the friend how (Score:1)
And yes, there are places on this planet where people can't order things online from the US. You'll be terribly surprised, but they manage to live without that
Re:Mailboxes etc. (Score:2)
Your best bet is to fly over and include the goods in your carry-on luggage. It's the only guarantee.
Re:Ask the friend how (Score:1)
Re:Ask the friend how (Score:1)
Re:Ask the friend how (Score:2)
OT: sig suggestion (Score:1)
It's more forceful as
I think it would be a good idea (the original form when he was asked about Western Civilization).
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Re:Don't forget the bad infrastructure in russia (Score:1)
That's not the problem. The problem is that somewhere along the line, it's going to get stolen if it even looks like it has commercial value.
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Re:If he can run Win98... (Score:1)
Nah, all the pirated software over there comes on CD =)
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Re:God, you geeks are pathetic. This is *correct*. (Score:2)
My girlfriend works for an international courier, and one of the places they occasionally deliver to is a small island in the South Pacific (I forget which one). The official delivery method is to dump a box on the beach. At some point in the next week or so, a local "postman" will come and pick it up, and take it to the intended recipient. You'll find that even technologically backwards countries have evolved reasonable efficient processes for getting things done, even if they sound unbelievable to the western world.
Post it (Score:2)
Shipping to Russia the easy way (Score:1)
For example I was in Kenya and Tanzania this summer.
DHL depots on most towns.
Same applies in most places.
DHL is the original and still the best worldwide courier.
UPS outside the USA mainly sucks.
Ever try collecting on an insurance claim for lost or damaged goods with UPS?
I have..It takes months.
Re:I Have Had Some Success (Score:1)
USPS will do the trick (Score:1)
Package encapsulation (similar to IP Tunneling?) (Score:2)
On the other hand this is probably illegal according to the Russian law, right?
Godspeed (Score:1)
Okay, even if you aren't very religious yourself, bear with me.
The pastor of our church just left us to go do missionary work in Kurdzadistan (sp?). I got to thinking about that after seeing the post recommending that you label the box as books about democracy. That would seem kind of suspicious to me as a "customs" agent and I might be inclined to peek inside and check. On the other hand, churches are sending packages to some of the most far flung parts of the world all the time so. . .
Arrange with a local church to ship the equiptment in their name to an affiliated church near your friend. Label the box Religious Materials: Bibles, Pamphlets, Hymnals, etc. If you want to be really cheeky, mark the value as "salvation". They must see that sort of thing coming into Russia all the time since the fall of the central communist party.
And you can actually line the top of the box with Bibles, which will serve a dual purpose: 1. it will reassure anyone who has a peek that the contents are actually religioius materials and 2. it'll probably help the church. The bibles will have to be in Russian of course, but I'm sure that your donation of them and the associated cost of shipping will be a welcome gesture to the church in return for their help.
Personally, I kind of like the idea of labeling computer parts as religious materials. After all, Someone had to invent solid state physics. . .
-"Zow"
God, you geeks are pathetic. This is *correct*. (Score:5)
Yes, folks, here in the real world there are sometimes correct answers. In response to rampant theft and corruption, most parcel-delivery companies either charge insane rates (DHL) or simply refuse to deliver to all but the most accessible, modern Russian cities (FedEx, etc.). In response to this, thousands of small courier companies have sprung up. They operate out of storefronts in immigrant neighborhoods. They advertise in emigre newspapers and on the web. They rent container space on ships and hire local delivery people. They send small, urgent packages with couriers. They get stuff delivered. Usually with 95% of DHL's reliability at half DHL's price.
This isn't a coding challenge with points awarded for the cleverest theoretical solution. It's a simple question of how to get a parcel sent reasonably safely and resonably frugally to East Podunk, Russia (or Paraguay, or rural Vietnam, or Sierra Leone, or Uzbekistan, for that matter). And the way most private citizens do it is through these small delivery companies.
Give the
Re:Shipping to Russia (Score:2)
But make sure the airline's not Aeroflot. (At least based on the reputaiton I've heard . .
Geoff
UPS and lack of Customer Service. (Score:3)
I recently setup a full e-commerce site for a client who was located in Mexico. His site is run out of the US and his credit card processing is done through Bermuda but all his shipments come direct from the manufacturer in Mexico. Most of the comapnies we had to deal with had no problem understaning this....but not UPS.
We wanted to use some of the tools UPS has been hyping for e-bussiness. Specifically we wanted the tools for calculating shipping costs, estimating shipping times, generating tracking numbers, and for integrating shipping with your existing site. But after nearly two months of e-mail and phone calls I still had not made any progress getting these tools from UPS.
On thier website the say they have to licences availabe a developer licence which gives you full access to their tools so you can use them with all of your clients. And the end-user licence which must be filled out and applied for by the company doing the shipping. I filled out the form for the developer license explaining that I had a number of clients who were intersted in using these tools and that at least one of them was located in Mexico. I got back a form letter saying that perhaps the end-user tools would be better for me.
I e-mailed their customer support saying that the end-user tools really weren't a solution for me since I wasn't about to have all of my clients go to the UPS website and register separately. I never received a reply. Nor did I receive a reply to the second or third e-mails sent at weekly intervals.
On the phone I was told "Just fill out the form on the website and someone will get back to you". Even after I explained that I had already done that and that my e-mails were being ignored. Finally a rep told me that there really was no such thing as the developers license and he had no idea why their website (Which had been redesigned a week earlier) still had references to it.
Eventually their rep directed me to a different page and told me to fill out the form there with my clients information and that I would get a username and password to download the tools with. But on that page Mexico was not a choice for country of origin. I told the rep this and he said "Oh don't worry just fill out that form". When I told him I would have to enter incorrect informaiton to do so he told me "Yeah, just fill it out.". I then asked point blank "So you are telling me to lie on this form graning me legal permission to use your software? You really want me to enter false information and lie about the country of origin?". Of course he came back saying "oh no, I can't tell you that".
Finally after his local rep in Mexico had ignored him for almost 2 months my client managed to get an address out of his local rep which would allow you to register from Mexico. But only for the tracking tool none of the others.
And then to rub salt in my wounds the next three packages I received shipped by UPS all arrived heavily dammaged. I e-mailed customer support at UPS with a polite letter explaining all the problems I've had dealing with them and saying that receiving three heavily damaged packages in a row was the final straw. As a consumer I was going to vote with my money and no longer choose UPS as my shipper. Two weeks later I received a phone call from UPS appologising but saying they needed my shipper ID number to register the complaint. At which point I explained again as I did in my letter than I am not a shipper I am a consumer who often chooses UPS as a shipper when I order through the web or mail-order because of their price and usual quality of service. Apparantly this was too much for the rep to understand as she appologized and said she'd have soneone else contact me.
The next person to contact me again required a shipper ID! Finally after 10 minutes on the phone trying to explain the whole thing I said "Look this is silly. I don't have the time to waste on this. Just tell your manager I'm upset because you've consistantly done a bad job and that UPS just lost a customer".
Declare the value to be 0! (Score:5)
Also, does your friend have any friends or relatives in Moscow or any of the other cities?
I've shipped computers (usually laptops) internationally before and have found that declaring value only raises stupid questions. Once I was sent a laptop (purchased in the US) from Austria, and it was held up in NYC for 3 days by customs because the sender declared a value of $3k or something and there were issues of duties. Totally absurd -- as if someone would avoid customs duties on an IBM Thinkpad by buying it in AUSTRIA and having it FEDEXed priority overnight to the US!
Possibilities (Score:1)
1) Russia's economy is very unstable right now and this may be the result of protectionist legislation. (but we all know that protectionist legislation isn't really to protect suppliers, rather its to allow the government to have its hands in international comerce)
2) Russia has long been based on client-patron relations (ie bribes). This isn't really a bad thing (as we in the west often see it) and it happend all through the Sovient Union and even before the revolution (for example, read "War and Peace", based on real characters and events). And even after the "fall" of communism (which the USSR never really was) not a lot has changed in Russia as far as how things work (BTW - as far as "the way things work" not much has changed since before the revolution) So its very possible that Russian customs has this restriction in place to require companies that ship to Russia to appeal to a patron in Russian customs (ie bribe them) in order to get their packages through. I know this sounds foreign (but it _is_ a foreign culture) and things like this don't get documented, but they never have or will be.
So my guess would be to ask your friend about how to get the package in - he just might have to talk to some people or have it sent through a local carrier.
But take this with a grain of salt. This is based on my instructors experiance (and I'm not he) and what he taught so I'm just taking his word for it. If someone in Russia would like to confirm or reject any of this please do - I'm always glad when I can say a prof is wrong about something!
How about FedEx? (Score:2)
Re:Fraud (Score:1)
Re:Fraud (Score:1)
Re:Fraud (Score:3)
Fraud (Score:5)
This is because there's an extremely large black market in Russia. They won't accept anything above $100 because it'll get stolen, and then UPS has to pay for the insurance.
Re:Another story Slashdot will never report on: (Score:2)
The silliest thing about that is it seems to be staying postive...you'd think they'd just give a Mr. T style bitchslap to maybe -10000...
I'd stop coming back if this place wasn't so funny.
Really! All the popularity (and the stupidity that naturally follows) has made Slash wackier and almost more entertaining than USENET.
--K
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FedEx (Score:2)
More expensive, but it seems like it'd work, and I'm almost certain FedEx paperwork has a checkbox for "charge duties to this account #" on it... setting up a Fedex account for personal use is easily achieved (I think I might actually have TWO of them *grin*)
D
Re:DHL? (Score:1)
They've been doing it since the 30s or 40s as I recall -- fedex and others didn't jump in until decades later, and that's why their international capabilities still lag far behind DHL.
I think DHL used to do a lot of government/big business stuff exclusively, which is why a lot of people don't know about them. Fedex and UPS did a good job selling the service to the "general public" (including small businesses), and they got the financial rewards for it.
But for international, DHL can still get a package delivered an order of magnitude faster than fedex/UPS...
I'm an investigator. I followed a trail there.
Q.Tell me what the trail was.
Re:Not using DHL is your mistake (Score:3)
Yes and no -- you're right that DHL is best for overseas shipping, but it still is pretty crappy. They subcontract to local folks everywhere (that's why they're better -- they've got 50 years worth of international contacts, not 20) so you're still at the mercy of the locals.
We had a $3000 computer held up in "customs" in Ecuador last year -- our rep went to pick it up from the shippers, and the local shipping company said they needed $2000 CASH or they wouldn't hand it over. We spent 6 months fighting with DHL to have them bring it back to us (similar to this guy's UPS experience -- they want to charge you to return the package!?).
I'm an investigator. I followed a trail there.
Q.Tell me what the trail was.
How this qualifies (Score:1)
If he can run Win98... (Score:2)
I am guessing he is loathe to delete any of his pirated software for which he has no installation media.
Re:Try a Russian connection (Score:2)
The fact that you are reading and posting a comment to this story almost makes your statement a self-referencing paradox.
It's a discussion!! It's an intelligent discussion!! what more do you want?
Re:Prices are the same (Score:2)
Another story Slashdot will never report on: (Score:2)
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Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
Check again (Score:3)
Interesting sidenote: My karma is now 32676743. Yes, really all those numbers. Looks like somebody tried to bitch-slap me and overshot....I guess Taco, like Microsoft, doesn't like his products sold on eBay.
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Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
Ask the friend how (Score:4)
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Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
Combination - use USPS and tunneling... (Score:2)
As others have said, the trouble lies in announcing that you have something that is worth taking a peek at. Even if someone with ill intent in customs opens your package, if the first thing he sees is "The Temporary Torrid Affair" and it's ilk, he'll probably send it on.
Of course, the real question is where I can get my hands on some of these low priced goods that the Russians are stealing. I could use a $10 Thinkpad or an E10k for the chilly winter ahead.
use the local Russian community (Score:5)
I totally believe it. You could suggest to that guy to find the russian
community in his town - I'm pretty sure Louisville has one, and they
usually have some private package shipping service going on, for nominal
fee. It originated when things were bad with food in Russia, and lots
of Russian stores in the states started offering food packages to
Russia. I've certainly seen ads here in the Houston store about sending
anything over.
Re:UPS Sucks! (and Airborne Express) (Score:2)
Here's how it would work: I would be at home when the package was due to arrive. The delivery person would walk up not to the "front door" (where the big WELCOME mat is located, and there's a bell on the side) but the kitchen door. After tapping on the screen door we have, he would give up and go next door. He didn't even leave a note saying that the package was delivered next door -- I had to call their customer service number and have them tell me over the phone.
They once left a package next door right before my neighbors left for a trip to Scandinavia for a couple of weeks. Thank heavens I called Airborne first.
Re:I found it interesting (Score:2)
Hello update()
I'm glad you and I see eye to eye on much (like /. has way to many flamebait topics).
Personally, I think if a topic is even only vaguely interesting, its good enough for /. I'm sure that others disagree. And that's fine with me. Others don't have to read the article if they don't want. Every day, the majority of stories on /. I don't even bother to read because they don't interest me in the slightest. And sometimes when bored I read them anyway because some rather interesting off-topic discussions have a tendency to pop up.
With a community the size of /. I'd rather see more stories than less. When K5 [slashdot.org] was going, the sheer number of stories was detrimental because of the small size of the community and having that many stories dilluted the number of discussions of substance. OTOH, /. has surpassed that threshold years ago. I'd wager that /. could chunk through close to a hundred stories a day and still have good discussion threads (and possibly better since *in theory* the trolls would be dilluted).
Anyway, I know that you weren't trying to be mean, but the number of "WTF is this doing here?" posts were getting on my nerves and yours had the misfortune (?) of being one of the earlier ones, so it was the one I responded to.
have a day,
-l
I found it interesting (Score:4)
And I don't even the remotest desire to ship anything to Russia.
The defining point of a nerd is a thirst for knowledge. Discussions such as this broaden my understanding of the world.
And to be hones, I'd rather see questions such as this than 3/4 of the .mp3/napster or kde vs. gnome stories that have posted almost daily for the past three months. Its amazing how the exact same flame wars erupt with each one.
of course, YMMV...
Re:UPS sucks!!!! (Score:2)
They have the most screwed up phone system I have ever encountered, even worse than Microsoft support. Each time you call in you get a different CITY, never mind a different person, and no one can communicate with anyone else. The bills came from somewhere in Nevada, and included a phone number, When I called, I got someone in the South, and she didn't have access to the billing records. Stay away from UPS. Use DHL.
Re:Go Postal! (Score:3)
They are a lot less expensive, and a lot slower. Plus once it gets to Russia you depend on the local post to deliver it, which is an iffy proposition, especially it is anything of value, since it will most certainly be opened.
Re:Air Freight (Score:2)
introduce this one myself, but j0el beat me to it!).
However Alaska Air (West Coast Airline) flys into Khabarovsk, and they have an airfreight service.
Another idea would to be to contact some of the companies on this site:
http://bisnis.doc.gov/bisnis/country/rfe-usco.h
who have a business presence in Khabarovsk. They should be able to give you an idea on how to get something shipped there.
Keep in mind the information on this site
http://bisnis.doc.gov/bisnis/country/9902khab.h
regarding customs regulation and importing stuff.
Good luck.
Re:Declare the value to be 0! (Score:2)
If your going to devlare value of "0", a quick letter saying "heres the junk you want, I hope you can fix the... and I don't know why you wanted this other junk...we miss you...." works great if you throw in some other lightweight junk (old teddybears work great for padding) but the letter has to be easy for customs to read so its got to be in the local language.
Mark the outside of the package .... (Score:5)
Then put anything you want in the box and ship it. No one at the border will want to touch the thing. Heh.
EMUSE.NET [emuse.net]
Re:Another story Slashdot will never report on: (Score:2)
if your karma actually is changing this much, that's even funnier, as they apparently _can_ be bothered to fiddle with the back end, when I'm sure a simple request to not sell would have sufficed. (?)
I'd stop coming back if this place wasn't so funny.
Re:use the local Russian community (Score:2)
It was interesting though. We take sending a package for granted in the U.S., but in much of the world it's a major logistical problem.
Jonathan
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this one... (Score:3)
WWJD -- What Would Jimi Do?
Russia Today (Score:2)
It does not surprise me that your having trouble send to russia your package, but I expect with in 5-15 years that russia will fall completely after they are living in early 20th conditions. It is a shame that the russian is unable to kill the communist stigma and become a responsible to their people after the huge mismanagement by the old government.
Re:Not using DHL is your mistake (Score:5)
So, I suggest going to town hall, and registering a virtual company (I believe that's what its called). Its basically a name that's like to your name; then you open a bank account to accept money in that name or pay in that name. The IRS will probably want to set it up with a unique tax ID, but then perhaps that's not necessary since a virtual company is not limited in anyway. (i.e. you are personally liable for the operations of that company, which is okay for a small thing).
Then go to DHL and get them to do it right with this company name.
Alternatively, The Island of Nassau in the Bahamas has this deal that you pay them money yearly to have a corporation, they officially give you an employee that does the local paperwork, and a plaque on the wall of a building (that looks like its made of plaques). But this is costly, and only really necessary if you need incorporation for yourself, which I don't really need... but I found its available so... I don't know how to contact them and set this sort of thing up though, sorry.
-Daniel
Watch Out for Taxes (Score:3)
Don't forget the bad infrastructure in russia (Score:2)
The problem in russia is that the country is *SO* big and there are hardly any concetred roads. Especially in the hinterland for people it's almost impossible to get to the next big town: the whole country lacks public transport.
And there will be risks (e.g. transport vehicle could get FUBAR because of the bad roads) that UPS simply can't ignore.
The whole issue is (unfortunately) quite a good example that russia still has to wear the USSR's legacy. :-/
Re:Why UPS Sucks... (Score:2)
Now they are saying that they are going to go back and try to get the package back..!
UPS sucks.
The Kleptocracy (Score:2)
UPS really sucks. Worldwide. (Score:5)
This association gives medicine against this disease for free to people who cannot afford it, to keep them from dying. Its money comes from donations.
Well, we imported some boxes of this medicine, from US to Brazil. Unfortunatelly we chose UPS. When the medicine was sent to UPS, it was sent as "prescription drugs" in the UPS bill,so it was very clear it was medicine.
Medicine, in Brazil, has no customs taxes. UPS knows it, for sure, as this can't be the first time they deliver medicine.
Guess what? BEFORE the product even arrived to Brazil, UPS had already paid customs a total of US$ 1660. This even before customs asked for this money. When the medicine arrived, customs noticed it was medicine and didn't charge anything. But, oops, UPS had already paid for that. They probably do this to expedite things.
What happened next is that UPS wanted to be reimbursed for this money, so they were not allowing us to get that medicine box.
Lots of phone calls to the Brazilian UPS branch, to no avail. They simply said they'd keep the box till we refunded them.
As people could die without this medicine, and negotiations with UPS were resulting in nothing, the association had no choice but to borrow money to pay UPS, as it was urgent, and we intended to negotiate later.
Now we're asking UPS to refund us, from this money they charged us because of their mistake.If they don't refund us, we're going to the press, both here in Brazil and US, and show everybody what happened, what probably will cause far more damage for them than $1600.
I even registered this site [cuidadocomups.com.br] (that URL translates to something like "beware of UPS"), that has no content yet, but will be dedicated to showing this and other UPS errors, in case they refuse to give the money back.
It'd be nice if you post here on Slashdot your problems with UPS, so I can put the messages on this site. You can also e-mail me [mailto] the problems you had, if you wish. If the site goes up, I'll use them.
Bribes (Score:2)
Re:Ask the friend how (Score:4)
I Have Had Some Success (Score:3)
Re:Stealing an RS/6000? That's funny! (Score:2)
Consider yourself lucky (Score:5)
Even if your package had made it into customers you'd have a 50-50 chance of ever seeing it again. You're friend is screwed. You're better off wiring US cash and letting them buy it locally.
post office? (Score:2)
doesn't russia have a postal service? they have frickin' stamps, they must have a postal service. maybe you can find someone reliable in moscow to forward the package once it's there.
the biggest problem is the rampant corruption and organized crime. Russia is worse now that Chicago was in the 1920's. It's doubtful a package would ever reach the outer areas.
I had some russian instructors at my university and they stopped visiting the homeland after being robbed and having their rental car stolen on their last trip.
C'mon, man, this is Russia .. (Score:2)
Re:Not using DHL is your mistake (Score:2)
I've sent packages to everywhere you can legally send things, and then some. DHL always came through. They are even very good about working with Interpol to track down the organised crime rings that steal high-value packages. (At one time, every Mac we sent to Saudi Arabia disappeared along the way.) You can also tag a high-value or fragile item so that it will be handled by one person only at each hub.
BTW, in "third-world" locations, DHL contracts with local companies to handle the actual deliveries.
Re:DHL (Score:2)
It clearly says in the text of the question "to do this with DHL, you have to be a business, no exceptions"
Honestly why do people make comments without reading what they are responding to?
-Nails-
What about plain old mail? (Score:2)
the REASON behind the choice of six cities (Score:3)
Moscow and St. Peterburg are trivial -- the two metropolises are far larger than any other city in Russia, have the highest density of foreigners, economic activity, etc.
Nizhnij Novgorod and Togliatti, both noticeably smaller, are the sites of two major automotive factories, which entails (1) a lot of economic activity, (2) increased foreign ties, and, most importantly (3) much more mafia interest. Obviously all 3 have their say.
Krasnoyarsk and Novorossiysk are a bit more of a suprise, but presumably this links with their raw materials industries, which scores on the same 3 points as above.
Does this excuse UPS behavior? No. But definitely goes to show that the local distribution of power has serious effects on the operations of a US company. Hrm....
And for the record, in terms of population, Moscow/StPetersburg/NN are the top 3, but the other 3 are minor towns that aren't much more important than most US county seats.
Re:postal service (Score:3)
Air Freight (Score:2)
Not using DHL is your mistake (Score:5)
So jump through whatever hoops there are to use DHL, and you'll have at least as good a chance of getting your stuff where it's supposed to go as you will with any other service, you can be quite confident of that.
And you won't get any of this stupid screwing around like you describe either. They know what they're doing, they don't toss stuff on the next plane going that direction and hope for the best
Ship it with a private company (Score:2)
Find a Friendly Import/Export Business (Score:5)
-cajun
Re:(Way OT) Re:Russia Today (Score:2)
This is a country which never even flited with capitalism until now and is actually flourishing with the most fundamental, unregulated, unfettered capitalism at in its purist form.
Russia is not flourishing. For the most part the economic trend in Russia has been a continuation of the downward trend established in the 80's, and the demographics (such as life expectancy) are reflective of this fact.
Russia's economy is not characterized by "unregulated, unfettered capitalism ..." As for regulation, I have heard anecdotally that the law would require an individual to go through 13 separate bureaucracies just to start a business that sold socks. What's really going on is that Bureaucrats make a living by asking for bribes; regulations exist in order to give government employees something to be bribed to overlook. Just as in other countries, organized crime specializes both in corrupting the government so that things can actually get done, and outright protecting people from the law. It is now true, and has probably been true for many years, that most of the production that goes on in Russia is against the law. That's how heavily regulated business is in Russia. Some of the other former Soviet republics are about as bad.
Capitalism means, among other things, "private ownership of the means of production." From what I've explained so far, you can imagine how little private ownership means when you have to bribe someone in order to exercise your property rights. Another complicating factor in the fictitious transition to capitalism is that when Russia privatized many of its state owned enterprises, they did so by a process which often involved bureaucrats giving favors to well-connected aspiring industrialists in exchange for bribes. This process is more plunder than it is privatization.
Organized crime in Russia is in part an offshoot of the old communist government. The mafia is heavily composed of ex-KGB types as well as factory manager-bureaucrat-politician types who used to be in charge of production and distribution in the communist days. The communist kleptocracy lives on, it just no longer bothers to put a veneer of justice on its activities.
It may be true that many Russians are honest, hardworking, and intelligent. It's not clear whether that will matter, given that the bad guys are the ones with all the guns and the political power. In the meantime the average Russian must tolerate the pilfering behavior of the customs officials who decide what is allowed to go into the country.
The American media do not cast a sufficienty ugly pall over our view of Russia, as evidenced by your impression that the country is flourishing and experimenting with capitalism. Again, Russia is going downhill in so many ways (and they still can't keep peace with their neighbor states). Russia is still nothing but a dirty, backwards corrupt third world kleptocracy, distinguished from other such countries only by its wasteful space program and its gigantic stockpiles of nukes.
Re:UPS Sucks! (Score:2)
I always have things sent to the local UPS customer counter in my name and marked 'HOLD FOR WILL-CALL'. I stroll in and pick it up when the web site tracking indicates it has arrived.
xjosh
Alternate Methods (Score:2)
2) Did you try FedEx? I've used it on occasion and everything made it through intact. Of course, I wasn't shipping anything of high value, but everything made it through just fine. The box was opened by customs (as everything is), but since the person I was sending it to was in St. Pete, they just had to go to a local FedEx office and it was there waiting for them. If you send it through regular mail there is no guarantee there would be anything IN the box once they got it - I'd say FedEx is more trustworthy than their local postmen and with FedEx it never enters the wretched local post office system. Only thing is I'm not sure if they have a location in Khabarovsk. But does UPS actually have a LOCAL office there????
3) I don't know if there is any large Russian population in Louisville, but if there is, you might be able to network a deal with some people if you feel you can trust them to act as couriers in an 'underground railway' sort of delivery method. This is something I've used on occasion as well if I knew someone actually going to Russia. Khabarovsk is probably not the most likely destination but you never know...
4) Perhaps you can find some way to get it through to Khabarovsk from someplace in the Far East like Japan - they have much more direct traffic to Khabarovsk than most European countries and the US and there might even be a service that does that.
Whatever you do, don't send it through USPS. Anything heavier than a letter gets opened - especially around the time of any type of holidays when the postal people can expect relatives from abroad to be sending gifts via mail...
Just my two kopecks...
DHL (Score:2)
sulli
Well... (Score:2)
Seriously, this is a good question. Many of us are, have been, or will be in a position to work with people overseas. So this is good knowledge to acquire - exactly what Ask Slashdot is about.
sulli
*** Better solution *** (Score:2)
Anyway, I would not declare high value, because your friend will have to pay customs based on your declared value (may be this is the reason it failed with UPS) - this will make upgrade too costly for him.
But even better solution would be to send your friend money with Western Union, and he can buy upgrade himself - computer hardware is cheaper in Russia (except notebooks, maybe).
Re:Mailboxes etc. (Score:2)
-----
D. Fischer
Re:Not using DHL is your mistake (Score:3)
This sounds like a lot of trouble to get one package sent. I'd just go find an existing business and pay them an extra $20 to get them to let you use their business name as the originator. No doubt they'd want to make sure you're not shipping drugs or something, but you can package the stuff in their presence to allay that fear.
Mailboxes etc. (Score:4)
Shipping to Russia (Score:3)
To do this, your friend needs to find out what airlines service the local airport. Once you've got that list of airlines, contact them, and see how they would like to handle shipping a small package (that you're willing to have opened/inspected in your presence) to that city. You may have to arrange to have it shipped to the US/EU offices of that airline before they can get it on a plane, but it is doable. Once it arrives there, your friend just needs to go down to the airport and claim the package.
I don't know what the charges would be for something like this - the last time I did it was in 92, and that was just to San Diego. But I know it (generally) can be done.
I have mailed packages to Russia (Score:2)
I too have been burnt with sending packages.
People of the US, Western Europe, Japan, Australia, and New Zealand are spoiled when it comes to their postal system. I have found that every other postal system in the world, excepting the above, is staffed by extremely low paid civil service workers who make a living off of their mail. The horror story of trying to ship a 5 pound package to Vladimir-Suzdael I will not repeat.
For a solution, can your friend get to a port? You can try to have a shipping (as in wet) company carry the package. Sometimes the crew or captain will carry something for a small renumeration (bribe). You may even get lucky if you friend can get to a port served by Maersk or SeaLand. (Actually, I think they merged now. Talk about a Trust/Monoply!)
You may also be running afoul of archaic importation laws. The value of the Ruble compared to the US Dollar is pretty severe, and with a new nationalistic government they may have strict import quotas.
Matthew
Try a Russian connection (Score:2)
If you're in Kansas or something, maybe somebody living near Brighton Beach or West Hollywood could look out the window and give you a phone number to try?
Cliff, I can't find my car keys. Could you post an Ask Slashdot about it?
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Re:I found it interesting (Score:2)
And I agree with you about the "thirst for knowledge". I'd never heard of Togliatti [volgagirl.com], let alone known that it's a major city whose female inhabitants are eager to meet a foreign husband. (No disrespect meant to Togliatti, that was the only web page in English I could find about it.) And I agree about the worthlessness of recurring flamebait topics.
Nonetheless, the front page of Slashdot is a scarce, valuable resource and it seems to me it should have a higher threshold than "vaguely interesting tidbit of information". To me, this question has nothing to do with technology, except that the object involves happens to be a computer, is extremely specific and is much more appropriate for Usenet, IRC or a Russian discussion board. I've got to think there's something more relevant and valuable in the submission queue.
Wow, Flamebait=1, Insightful=1, Interesting=1, Informative=1, Funny=1, Overrated=1, Total=6
I haven't received moderation like that since my post in one of the "MS sues Andover" stories scored 8 of 10 categories.
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Re:How this qualifies (Score:2)
This is about the experience of computers living in the world (well, reverse your choice of words). Nerds don't only/all use Linux. Or even BSD.
First of all, the question was, "How do I ship an object to Russia. The fact that the object in question happens to be a computer doesn't make it a question about computers. Second, I've got to think this story is only here because it mentions Linux. Do you think if someone had written in asking, "My friend needs a new PC so he can run Windows 2000. How should I send it to him?" that would have qualified as News for Nerds?
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Some Logistics Contacts to try (Score:3)
TCL [tclog.ru]
Search some of these other things Google locates [google.com]
The key is not that you are shipping a parcel, but that you need Logistical support, which is the business of moving goods from point to point and handling customs issues for you. This is what Logistics companies do best, hopefully you can find one which will help you with Small-Pack (a single parcel.)
Good luck.
Vote [dragonswest.com] Naked 2000
(Way OT) Re:Russia Today (Score:3)
Fortunately, there are lots of good, honest, hardworking and intelligent people in Russian and something good will arise from the ashes. The signs are there if you can pierce the ugly pall american media casts over lands in central asia.
Vote [dragonswest.com] Naked 2000
Re:Bribes (Score:5)
and how do you propose Pavel does this? The honor system? Staple a bunch of $10 bills to the box and put a note on the outside, "Please remove your bribe and pass this package of absolutely no value on to the next carrier"
I'm sure there are better ways. Many shippers have partners within other countries. You may have to do some research to find them, starting with the good old USPS. Also, check with airlines as they often will accept packages (your friend may have to go to the airport to pick it up) as air freight (pretty reasonable, too.)
Vote [dragonswest.com] Naked 2000
Shipping to Russia - Not impossible at all (Score:2)