Which Solid State Medium Is More Portable?

An Anonymous Coward on the go asks: "Like many Slashdot readers I have multiple computers with multiple types of storage media: I have an older PowerMac tower with Zip, CD-RW, and Jaz; I have an AMD tower with CD-RW, DVD-RAM, Zip, and the oh-so-anachronistic floppy drive; I also have a Visor Platinum; and I will soon get a digital camera and a PowerBook G4. The media I have are not generally suited for portable devices, and I wish to minimize the type of media I need on hand. In looking at digital cameras I've found a number of different styles of storage media, Compactflash, Smartmedia, Memorystick. They all seem comparable in price/MB and in interfaces to computers (USB and PCMCIA are common). Before I choose a camera I'd like some advice on which media to get. I want something that will be compatible with the various devices and operating systems (MacOS, Linux, PalmOS). Also something that won't become relatively expensive and rare like my Jaz has become. I'd also like something that would handle digital audio as well, since I'll probably want to get a portable and/or car based digital audio player before too long."

smartmedia

[grammar nazi]

Now that the prices are finally coming down, I would suggest smartmedia flash memory. It is the most compact form of any of the solid state memory storage chips. If size isn't what you mean by portability, I also recommend it because it works on many different cameras and MP3 players. I can use the same smart media card in my camera as I can in my MP3 player (after formating).

Finally, smart media is cooler, because the company that licenses Compact Flash does animal testing on Penguins... er.. so I heard.

With the multitude of platforms you use...

[Azerphale]

You might want to consider a used Sony Mavica. All you need to do is be able to read the image off of the floppy. Simple enough, no?

Re:With the multitude of platforms you use...

[FuegoFuerte]

Only problem is plain old floppies don't hold all that much, and they aren't exactly easy to read on PDAs, at least not the PDAs I know of. If you use something with CompactFlash, then you also have the option of using one of the IBM Microdrives, which you can get up to 1GB now. They're not real cheap, and they're not solid state, but they're cheaper than actual flash memory and hold a lot more. Not only that, they're cool.

take care with SmartMedia and audio devices

[Canonymous Howard]

I'd also like something that would handle digital audio as well...

Be careful about trying to use SmartMedia in both camera and audio applications. There are a number of audio devices that reformat SmartMedia in such a manner that cameras can't use it. At all. They can't even reformat it back to a camera friendly format. Many a poor soul has ended up stuck with a SmartMedia card that only works in their MP3 player.

Some manufacturers have released programs that employ a PC's SmartMedia drive to reformat the media into a camera friendly format, but it's something you'll want to look into before you stick that 64MB SmartMedia card in your MP3 player.

At the moment, I've only heard of this affecting SmartMedia. Nonetheless, it might pay to investigate before putting a CompactFlash into a digital audio device.

Re:CD.. it's always there

[Helix150]

yeah CD is good for compatibility, but when the unit has to fit in your pocket CDs arent it. Even 8cm CDRs are kind of big. I like CF because it has a great balance between physical size, capacity, and compatibility. (small, big and standard)

Re:smartmedia

[Helix150]

I think smartmedia is one of the worse choices. Yes it is small, or more notably thin, but that impedes capacity. A quick search of buy.com will show a 64mb card (thats the biggest I saw) for around $80.

I like CompactFlash for a number of reasons. Yes the card is bigger, its about the size of 3-4 SM cards stacked. So thicker is more of what it is. Prices are around the same, a 64mb card starts at ~$75. However, it gets bigger. for $144 you can get 128mb. $230 gets you 192MB. $315 for 256MB. $473 gets 384MB. $630 for 512MB.
And then you get Microdrives.
If you're willing to have the card eat power like popcorn, you can get 1GB of Microdrive for $475. Yes, its a teeny hard drive inside a CF card.

Another advantage of CF is that theres a ATA controller on the card. SM has the controller in the device, so although the cards can be cheaper, some older devices wont work with newer larger cards. Another advantage of having a ATA controller is that the card cannot be easily reformatted like SM cards, so they will always work in all devices, no formats required. I could pop a CF card out of my digicam and pop it into a MP3 player. Then put it in my Jornada organizer and check out the pics, as well as copy some new MP3s I just downloaded. With SM, I would either have to get two cards (one for MP3 format, one for digicam format) or use only one at a time.

Also because of the ATA chip, CF cards can easily be plugged into PCMCIA slots. All thats needed is a $5 adapter to match up the right wires.

And one more.
Because CF is so close to PC Card, the two can be used for similar functions. For example, most Pocket PCs have CF slots. But as well as memory, you can plug in a CF card modem. Or a CF barcode scanner. Or a CF cell phone adapter. The CF slot in a PDA can be used for expansion cards as well as memory. Many such devices exist.

SmartMedia cards do LOOK cooler. The curved line across the contact surface has definate geek appeal. But any true geek would go for functionality over style. Although the CF has a recessed female connector (like a PC card), it also has a metal case. Which means that they are much more durable. And not having exposed pins means they're much less vulnerable to static.

To sum this all up,
SmartMedia isnt that smart. CompactFlash is superior in almost every way, including reliability, standardization, capacity, and versatility.

Friends dont let friends buy SmartMedia or use AOL.

No choice.

[jotaeleemeese]

There is no real choice: if you like a device it will come with its own kind of storage and you can't do anything about it.

CompactFlash seems better (I have a Kodak camera, I get the card out and either put it in a USB reader in my desktop or in a PCMCIA adapter while away with my old 486 laptop. No problems either way, in the other hand I bought an Palmp-3 player that uses Smartmedia, I put music once and sounded great, I tried to listen to it again and was all gone. I don't know, they seem a little bit too fragile these SM thingies).

Re:take care with SmartMedia and audio devices

[Helix150]

this only affects smartmedia. SM cards have no controller, the controller is in the device. Thus they can be prone to this defect, although it breaks the SM spec. Another problem with having the controller in the device is that when newer larger cards come out, the old controllers wont work with them.

CF cards on the other hand have a ATA chip built in them. They cannot be fuxored with in the same way as SM cards. Also they do not have upgradability or future-proofing issues. Since it started, CF has undergone only one change... CF type 2. This basically means a thicker card and a power connector on the side like a PC card. CF2 slots are 100% backward compatible.

Re:CD.. it's always there

[Strog]

That right. I love my cdrom on my Palm Pilot and my digital camera. This really doesn't answer the question that was asked. The question is different devices not different computers.

This story is a -1 Troll

[Kris_J]

Great, a SM v's CF war on Slashdot...

There is no "best" solid state format. I have a digital camera and an MP3 player that use Smartmedia, a TRGpro that uses CompactFlash and another MP3 player that uses MMC. I have a CF modem that came with a CF-2-PCMCIA adapter that I use in both my TRGpro and Ultralight notebook. I have a combo SM & CF USB reader/writer and a separate MMC USB reader/writer. Yet somehow I live. Currently I'm trying to get hold of a Pretec SM-2-CF adapter so my TRGpro can read cards used by my camera. About the only format I would recommend against is Sony's memory stick, mostly because there are three different formats for that -- normal, secure and compact.

The MMC cards are physically the best size, but they're really slow. SM used to be my favourite, but now I'm a fan of CF. However, if a Palm device was released tomorrow that was colour, 33MHz in a Palm III-style case profile I wouldn't care what flashRAM standard it used as long as it did use something and supported a program like AutoCF. Similarly, I'll work round whatever format my next digital camera uses -- probably Sony's 8cm CDr camera...

--

How small is small enough???

[Mossfoot]

Some of these cards and memory sticks are getting ludicrously tiny. Just because you CAN stuff X-number of Megs (or have angels dance) on the head of a pin doesn't mean you should.

The standard Compact Flash Card that I've seen in most digital cameras is also what my PSION 5 uses, and I like the size of them just fine. Small enough to store anywhere, big enough to find if you drop it on the floor.

But heaven help you if you sneeze on some of these smaller ones, with a slight updraft they might stay aloft for hours along with dandelion seeds... okay, I exagerate, but they are getting bloody small, and for no good reason.

Re:With the multitude of platforms you use...

[giberti]

Bad alternative, with mega pixel cameras saving 1Mb+ Files, you need to carry 1 disk / image (I know you can save at a higher compression, but the image quality drops significantly, which is important if you are going to be printing these things)

I have an Olympus D600-L SLR (uses the sm cards -the small ones) Digital Camera with resolutions at 1280x1024, even without the max compression level, images are on the order of 300K+ so thats, 4-5 per floppy. In high resolution mode, they're around 900K, so if your lucky, and take pictures that can compress well despite the lowered JPEG Setting, you might get 2 on a disk. Not a good option.

To sony's credit, they have released a new version of the mavica which uses CD-R for its media... works in all the systems the original author mentioned, worth taking a look at but at $1000+ its steep.

You missed SD.

[SEWilco]

I just got a color Casio EM-500. It has an MMC [mmca.org] slot, and there are reports that it can also use SD memory. Apparently SD memory is similar but has two more pins, yet Casio can use it without some sort of "protection" feature. [Gee, you missed SD in your potluck] Unfortunately I haven't found any non-memory MMC devices.

Well, first I have to load Linux on it so I can make use of it...