On Obtaining Appropriate Compensation... 184
wpc4 asks: "I've been working at my current place of employment in California for going on 2.5 years. I work for a rather big HMO providing IT support for over 2000 users. In my time there I have had no negative feedback, I am the "go to" for the department, I have improved our service area's image to other IT departments in our organization, had one promotion, and so forth. I am currently making over $5k less than the minimum for my title, while some new employees just got hired with the same title and lesser skills as myself and were hired on at over 30% more than I make, yet I have 2.5 years of seniority. Since I'm not union I don't appear to have any way of trying to get myself compensated appropriately, is there anything in the California labor laws that I can pull into play? Any suggestions at all before I look for other employment?"
Since you didn't mention it... (Score:5, Insightful)
The points you make are all reasonable. If you're genuinely as useful as you claim, management would certainly be receptive, especially in light of the discrepancy between your salary and that of the new hires (which they may simply not realize until you point it out). This could very well end up being a non-issue for you.
And don't threaten to quit on your initial approach, if you do ask. Most of my bosses have never responded well to confrontational employees, if they weren't given the chance to right a wrong in the first place.
Re:Since you didn't mention it... (Score:5, Insightful)
Absolutely -- before getting a lawyer (which won't help) or threatening to walk, ask. It's extremely unlikely anything worse will happen than them saying no, and if you're doing a good job and making below minimum for your title, you're in a relatively good position.
Ask, but have a backup plan (Score:5, Insightful)
But has others have said, under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should you say anything like "or else I walk". NEVER.
HOWEVER, you should begin preparing a backup strategy - update your resumee and start looking at other jobs in the area. Begin asking yourself if you are willing to relocate. In short, start looking for another job.
This is for the following reasons:
It is far better to start looking NOW, while you are relatively cool about it, than to get so pissed off that one day your mouth acts before your brain. I have a friend who did that - told them "Take this job and shove it" and walked out. He damn near lost his car and home before getting another job, and that was during better times than now!
Re:Ask, but have a backup plan (Score:4, Interesting)
If you're willing to take the risk, threating to walk is in fact the *most likely* way to get you what you want. I'm not talking about saying anything rude, just politely inform your boss that if you're not going to be paid what you're worth you'll have to consider leaving for a company. It gets the point across and doesn't burn any bridges at the same time. In fact there was a survey done recently that I heard about on BBC newshour where managers said that said this was most likely to result in succes of any method (but was also most likely to get you fired), but I can't seem to find it on their website.
Don't do this if you absolutly can't live with loosing your job, but if asking nicely doesn't work and you can handle the risk, go for it.
NEVER say never.
Besides, looking for a job is one of the worst things you can do if are at all interested in keeping your current job. Once you start looking you'll find you mentally "check out" and leaving becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. You shouldn't have to shop around if you are certain that entry level people are being hired into equivalent positions to yours at a higher salary then you have.
I respectfully disagree (Score:5, Insightful)
Look at it from the boss's perspective - you just had to bribe an employee to stay. Now, how far do you trust that employee?
Just as I recommended to the employee to have a backup plan, I would recommend to the boss to have a backup plan - namely, start de-emphasising that employee - get them off critical path, get a second employee to be able to cover for them, start looking at how to replace them.
You are correct in that looking for another job might cause one to mentally commit to leaving, creating a self-forefilling prophecy. So would the boss's logical reaction: he is going to become able to replace the employee, and may very well do so.
If you have to threaten to quit in order to get your raise, you don't want to be working there.
Most bosses are clueful enough to realize that if an employee is asking about their salary, failure to meet the employee's request will result in the employee leaving - you'd have to be pretty stupid to say "Oh, you won't pay me what I'm worth. OK, well, back to my cube I go, dohp-dee-doh." And if your boss IS truly so stupid that he doesn't realise that, then do you want to be working for him?
Re:I respectfully disagree (Score:2)
That's a pretty silly perspective. "No
you just had to bribe a candidate to come
on board." What the hell does that mean?
"You just had to bribe the pizza delivery
driver to feed you."
Re:I respectfully disagree (Score:2)
Re:I respectfully disagree (Score:2)
It all depends on whether or not you're actually threatening. Giving your boss an ultimatium like "Pay me more or I'm leavin'...bitch!" is never gonna fly...but asking for a raise to "Keep you happy" is a far better way to imply that if you're not compensated fairly, you'll be looking. Unhappy employees tend to not stick around.
I disagree with your disagreement... (Score:2)
- You like your job
- You like the company on the whole
- You aren't satisfied with your compensation vs. the work you do and the value you provide to the company
- You hope this can be worked out
- If it cannot be worked out, you are considering whether or not you
I don't really think we do disagree (Score:2)
I don't think saying "Well, OK, so you say I cannot get what I am worth here. OK, then I will have to consider my response to that" is wrong.
However, DON'T say that if you don't have some fallback plan. Have some offers in hand first.
If you don't have the offers in hand, don't threaten to quit, in any way.
If you do have the offers in hand, then you aren't threatening. You are stating a fact.
So with both of
Re:I don't really think we do disagree (Score:2)
Asside from what I said about pursuing other options first earilier, I don't understand why you thing having offers in hand isn't a threat. Getting other offers first is way more explicit a threat than what I suggested.
Offers in hand == Threat. You can't bring offers and not threaten.
Re:I don't really think we do disagree (Score:2)
To me, a threat is a statement intended to pressure somebody into doing something they would not otherwise do - "Give me the money or I will quit" is a threat.
If you are making a statement about what will happen, without the primary intent being to alter the person's actions, that is not a threat, just a statement of fact. "You do not currently give me adequate money. These guys will. I will work for those who give me adequate money" isn't so much a threat a
Re:I disagree with your disagreement... (Score:2)
- If it cannot be worked out, you are considering whether or not you have a future at the company.
No. "Gee, you won't give me a raise (or the raise I want)? I'm disappointed."
There, end of statement. You have nothing more to say. If your boss is too slow to figure that there is an implicit "my resume will be updated", then saying it explicitly won't get you anywhere.
If he can go to his bosses when you give notice for that other job you've been offered that's either
never threaten (Score:3, Insightful)
THEN, you tell your boss that, while you've enjoyed your run here, you've been made a better offer. Bring some boxes so you can clear out.
However! this is when your boss, who really stood to lose nothing before, may push harder for you to get a raise rather than losing you.
This was common practice where I used to work.
You never hung on up recruiters (always be polite) and keep your resume up to date and take a perio
Re:Ask, but have a backup plan (Score:3, Interesting)
In my company, it's been directly stated that if anyone has an offer from another company, let your manager know, and "they'll try to match it".
So..., ask nicely for a raise now, and if you don't get it, or it's not enough, start searching & applying & interviewing (in your spare time, or use some vacation or sick time :P), and if you get an offer you like, ask for a raise again, telling them you have an offer, and then decide what t
Busted (Score:2)
Actually what they are saying is 'let us know you betrayed by us by interviewing elsewhere and we will try to convince you to stay (here's a token raise) until that other company fills the position, then we will replace you with a loyal employee and make it harder for you to find a job.'
If you go out and interview, like the potential of the new position, get an o
Re:Ask, but have a backup plan (Score:4, Interesting)
Last year my friend had given up on getting an adequate raise at his current employer (asked many times, received little). He looked around and got a firm job offer from another outfit, went to his boss and asked whether the boss wanted to make a counter offer, and the boss gave a raise on the spot more than twice the raise my friend had imagined he could get. He turned down the other offer, stayed with his old outfit, and is much more happily (and gainfully) employed, and has a better relationship with his boss.
The key to this is that he would have been very happy to take the other job too, so this was not a bluff, nor a negotiation in bad faith.
Another friend received the following advice from his boss:
Re:Since you didn't mention it... (Score:5, Interesting)
I'd aim for a 10 second pitch.
Wrong! Don't keep it short! (Score:4, Informative)
Sure, there is no need to have a State of the Union address prepared, but you should be able to prove that you are worth the extra money. The only way you can do that is to provide concrete examples of who you have helped improve service, the bottom line, customer satisfaction or whatever measurement the manager favours.
Don't assume that your boss knows what you do - half the time they don't. Actaully, half the time may be too generous. How do you expect to sell yourself (and let's not kid ourselves, that is what we are doing when we ask for a pay rise), if we don't do any selling?
I got a 15% payrise after I:
showed that compared to the market rates, my pay was below average
gave three examples of how I had generated additional revenue for the company, increased the efficiency of an area and demonstratably improved customer satisfaction.
All up, that took about a 1 minute to say.
Re:Wrong! Don't keep it short! (Score:2)
It all depends on the job. My "first real job" was for a small company. I had written some great software that was doing great things for the company.
I walked into the big boss's office and told him I wanted a raise. He asked what I was thinking. I told him. He asked if I was worth it. I told him yes (I certanily was). He gave me the raise. The whole dialogue took less than a minute.
What it boiled down to was this: they really didn't give raises un
Re:Wrong! Don't keep it short! (Score:2)
> He asked if I was worth it. I told him yes (I certanily was). He gave me the raise.
What kind of manager is that? If he knows what you are worth, why does he need to ask if you are worth it? If he doesn't know if you are worth it, how does asking you for your opinion give him an objective answer? So you've basically been lucky that you had a clueless manager as to how you got your pay rise.
> They really also didn't know what IT was worth.
Again you emphasise
Re:Wrong! Don't keep it short! (Score:2)
The boss I asked for the raise started the business.
He maintained the code back in the 70's.
At the peak, he employed around 40 people.
The business routinely had profits in excess of 80% of the gross.
He kept the business running for more than 20 years before selling it.
He asked if I was worth it. I told him yes (I certanily was). He gave me the raise.
What kind of manager is that? If he knows what you are worth, why does he need to ask if you are worth it?
One
Re:Wrong! Don't keep it short! (Score:2)
But:
* How many outstanding managers are there is this world? (don't translate one lucky experience into 'this will work for everyone' advice)
* outstanding managers can be forgetful, distracted by other issues, have other pressures on them (eg cost cutting) - are you going to rely on their memory in the hope of getting pay rise?
* you are working in a small company where
Re:Since you didn't mention it... (Score:2, Insightful)
It's glib, but anytime you think you're indispensable, stick your hand in a bucket of water and when you pull it out see how big a hole it leaves. [linuxplanet.com]
Remember that when you walk in to the office.
Very good point... (Score:5, Insightful)
That being said, I don't think you can assume that management is "receptive", even if you're a good employee. Management does stupid shortsighted things all the time -- that's what keeps Scott Adams in business! This particular situation is probably not due to malice or prejudice, but you really can't rule it out either.
The very first issue is to answer the question, Why are you being passed over? It might be simple oversight. It might be that somebody just doesn't like you. It might even be for a perfectly good reason you know nothing about.
Re:Since you didn't mention it... (Score:3, Insightful)
By not seeking other employment you are encouraging them to screw their employees. You are rewarding them for screwing you (by staying.) Your employer has no other way of learning why underpaying employees is bad.
The longer you stay underpaid, the more they are encouraged to do the same to others.
Hmmmm. I think I'll go update *my* resumé now...
Re:Since you didn't mention it... (Score:5, Insightful)
If your boss is "Trying" to get this fixed, and its been more than three months with no solution, your boss is not doing anything.
Either he doesnt' think you're worth the new money, or your company is too dysfunctional.
Start looking elsewhere. If you really aren't being paid what you're worth, and the company has had three months to rectify it and hasn't
IF they are hiring new people at %30 more but say that they don't ahve room in the budget, they are lying.
They have room in the budget for the new people.
I think either your boss doesn't value you as much as those new people (it happens, even with people who are actually good employees) or he figure's your'e a sap who he can string along.
Get your resume in shape and get out of there.
Don't be a sap.
Oh, and screw this "they owe it to me" crap-- they don't owe you anything, and that's what you're getting, so end the relationship. Let your boss know you know this is absurd, or kills his ass until you leave- its your call. But its time for you to tak responsibility for the situation. Find someone who will pay you what you're worth.
Not because they "owe" it to you-- because they value you.
Re:Since you didn't mention it... (Score:2)
My friend... It is hard and cold out here amongst the jobless throng. Be careful. Don't jump from the frying pan!
IANAL, so here goes... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:IANAL, so here goes... (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't understand this mindset. It's insanity. No wonder you can't throw a stone and not hit a lawyer these days (who will sue you).
-malakai
Re:IANAL, so here goes... (Score:2)
Daniel
Suggestion (Score:2)
IANAL (Score:2)
Ask. (Score:5, Insightful)
There is often a "loyalty penalty" in organizations. Someone who works for many years and gets yearly raises will make less than someone who comes in at market rates. It sucks but it's very common.
Go to HR (Score:4, Insightful)
1. Update your resume and get it out there.
2.Approach your boss and HR about a salary adjustment. Not a raise, a salary adjustment.
A Salary adjustment is justified by bringing your compensation in line with new hires with the same title and grade.
A Raise is based on merit and a review.
Then again, is $200/month after taxes worth raising a stink? I tend to not worry until the discrepancy is closer to 10%.
Either way, first get the resume out there for a week or two. You will need to see what is happening incase the alternative given by the company is that you will have to wait for your review.
Just remember, a salary is better than unemployment.
There is no law to protect you, only company policy. Unless you really want the definition of "at will employment."
Or to learn how a 1 person layoff comes about.
Re:Go to HR (Score:2)
Probably worth raising the issue, but not a stink. As someone with a $173 monthly car payment, a $200/mo net increase would be very much worth it.
Re:Go to HR (Score:4, Insightful)
Not sure how that would happen. Presuming the resume (well, mine is a CV) is going to reputable employment agencies, then they will always consult you first before passing it on to a prospective employer. The agency wants to look like an idiot just as little as you do.
I occasionally get calls from agencies 18 months after being placed in a permanent post, so my CV is definitely 'out there' despite my not having pushed it.
There is no harm in this. You are not going to get fired simply for having been in touch with an employment agency months ago, or now.
Re:Go to HR (Score:3, Insightful)
Presuming the resume (well, mine is a CV) is going to reputable employment agencies,
People misunderstand. Things get screwed up. And if you post on dice.com or something, all bets are off. I've seen people with the best of intentions get into trouble by putting out a resume before they were ready to.
Good Lord (Score:2)
Re:Go to HR (Score:2)
I live on $200 a week, though I budgetted $300 in my savings, just in case.
In this market, anyone who's employed should be living on $200 and putting the rest into savings or retirement.
I don't understand the people who just watch the dot bomb (And all the local Amazon.com employees who bought million dollar houses on stock optiosn declaring bankruptcy) who are continuing to live paycheck to paycheck at a big salary.
It was prudent in boom times to save your money, and if you're not doing it now, you're j
Re:Go to HR (Score:2)
Please outline a budget where a single person could live on $200 a week. I would be very interested in seeing it.
Re:Go to HR (Score:2)
Rent for an efficiency in downtown milwaukee $400
Electricity for a month in downtown milwaukee $25
Telephone bill for a month (only local service) $20
Water and heat included with rent
That takes care of rent and utilities (assuming electric stove) and leaves you with $355 for the rest of your needs.
Lets say your company sucks, and you can't get a discount bus pass, so you have to buy the weekly bus pass at
Re:Go to HR (Score:2)
Oh there are lots of ways-- you can buy a good mobile home for about $6,000 and then your rent is only $200 a month. Another $200 for food and $100 for gas and you'd have $300 for everything else.
Or if you pay $500 for rent, you ride the bus and just barely make the $800/month budget.
Seattle's cost of living is less than the Bay Area, but higher than most of the rest of the country-- so if you can do it here, you can certainly do it in places that are cheaper.
Frankly, the idea that you have to spend al
Re:Go to HR (Score:2)
Re:Go to HR (Score:2)
Re:Go to HR (Score:2)
If you have a mortgage and a car payment, you're already financially irresponsible.
Houses never make financial sense-- you do not "Save" in taxes what you spend on them.. its just a waste of money.
IF you have a house and a car payment, you may not be living beyond your means, but you're still wasting a lot of money.... and you're certainly living beyond prudent means.
IF your mortgage is more than %15 of your net-- after taxes-- income, you shouldn't have bought the house.
Re:Go to HR (Score:2)
Go ahead and disregard everything I say from now on- its not uncommon for people to refuse to believe the truth-- and not surprisingly, if you did the math you'd see that what I say is true.
Houses appreciate at the rate of inflation, or a bit less. Houses also have a significant amount of maintenance money that has to be put into them. At least %2 of the value of the house, per year. On top of that, they have real estate taxes, and all that.
Every analysis I've seen that talks about investing in houses (
Re:Go to HR (Score:2)
Wow, only six years? Your equity must be something like %2 of the loan, or so.
If you actually sell it for $125k, that's one thing. But you can't really compare the deal until you close and you look at the actual amount of money you get out of the house.
You've been renting your house, you just don't realize it. You haven't gotten any equity because the mortgage is front loaded. All the appreciation of the house has been due to deflation of the dollar over that time period (The dollar is inflated %8.6 a
FIRST (Score:4, Funny)
So let's pipe down and not have to wade through another million of them, hm?
What's wrong with our country? (Score:5, Insightful)
Seniority should mean crap imo. I think this concept of seniority is blown to shreds when the less senior member of a department is more valuable and know more then the senior ranking member.
Talk about value. You have a value to this company. If you guess that value, and believe you should be paid more then act on it. If you are wrong (over inflated ego) be prepared to be slapped down.
-Malakai
Re:What's wrong with our country? (Score:2)
that is why unions were formed, to have one united voice with which the unions of the employers can settle the contracts.
now the question is, why is he not in an union then, didn't seem like a smart move when techies were hot hot hot? the paper workers around here get insane wage for what they do, but they are organized. and know that they make insane amounts of money to the company they work for as well. if th
Re:What's wrong with our country? (Score:3, Insightful)
That's a load of crap.
Anyone can negotiated a work contract, and who says it has to be tedious?
I've negotiated every single one of mine.
Unions are organized crime- they exist only to form close shops and force employees to pay a cut of their salary to them for this "service" which they never perform- because they union learns quickly if they lety the company pay them off, they get more money! So the union gets paid off by the company, and the workers pay them as well, and they spend their time talking t
Re:What's wrong with our country? (Score:2)
henry ford wouldn't even let his workers talk to each other during a break. it is for reasons like this that unions were formed. Child labor is another example of what a company will do if left unchecked. in the US in the '30s, one child died in the US per day during one of their 18 hour shifts. They weren't even allowed bathroom breaks, but were told to sit over the gra
Re:What's wrong with our country? (Score:2)
Correction: you don't hear of these things nowadays in the US. A little bit of looking outside our borders will show that the fuck the worker mentality is still alive and well in countries that do not have such laws.
Re:What's wrong with our country? (Score:2, Interesting)
Can you show me an example of a union that isn't corrupt??
I haven't seen one. And in the definition of corrupt I am using I include promoting seniority over competance and protecting deadwood.
Re:What's wrong with our country? (Score:4, Insightful)
If a union employee is doing a bad job at work, it's nearly impossible to fire them. They can be incredibly abusive to everyone, and the company can't do a thing about it.
Before you go spouting off about what you think unions are, you should go work in a car factory for a while as a supervisor. You'll change your tune quickly.
Re:What's wrong with our country? (Score:4, Insightful)
And Henry Ford paid his workers the highest wages in the country, also without unions.
Fact of the matter is, a worker who didn't like Henries no-talking rule could go work somewhere else for less money.
It was a trade off the worker was free to make.
With unions-- you don't get to make that choice. You get what the union "negotiates" for you, and you don't get to work out a better deal with the employer.
IF unions really provided a good service, they wouldnt' force people to join the union in order to work there. That they do is all the proof that's necessary that they are fundamentally corrupt.
Your innocent belief that the union isn't paid off by the company to fuck over its members is sweet, but foolish.
I'm not unionized, and I don't get fucked over by my employers. I wonder why that is.... according to you, I'm incompetant to negotate my own salary and so I must be getting fucked over and yet I make lots of money-- not $0.65 an hour.
The reality is, unions are a parasite-- industries that are not unionized pay their employees better.
Re:What's wrong with our country? (Score:2)
Fact is, that the no-talking rule was demeaning. Fact is, a man making a living wage (or just above it) will accept a little humiliation (and change it in his mind to make it acceptable) for the extra money.
Fact is, unions in the U.S. have resulted in a great increase in the standard of living for workers and greatly enlarged the middle class .
(Please note well: I'm being a bit mockin
Re:What's wrong with our country? (Score:2)
When you raise the prices of something artificially by passing a law, what happens is that less of that thing is purchased.
The end result in the case of minimum wage laws is that unemployment goes up as people who are only worth less than the minimum wage to an employer can no longer get a job. This mostly negatively affects people new to the work force, teenagers and the working
Re:What's wrong with our country? (Score:2)
Re:What's wrong with our country? (Score:2)
So what's the solution?
Getting a lawyer? Gee, that's a great way to stay employed. What employer wouldn't love for his employees to start threatening legal action, instead of simply taking 10 seconds to simply ask for a raise?
Find another job? How does that solve his problem? If he sucks at negotiation, then he'll just find himself in the same boat at another company (if the company is honest, he may start at market wages, but that sure won't last long.)
If he
You may have to show another offer (Score:3, Insightful)
But, depending on where you work some companies will only do large salary adjustments if you have an offer from somewhere else for them to match/beat. Even if they don't have a policy like this, having an offer from somewhere else gives you leverage for getting a raise.
Re:You may have to show another offer (Score:2)
I haven't pulled this out of my ass - I was in a pretty similar situation until few months ago. After many failures to get a decent response, single email to CEO (I would have asked in person but CEO is in
Never accept a counteroffer (Score:2)
Even though counteroffers are fairly common, most employers feel as if they are getting "robbed" by someone who is exploiting the situation. Their logic is a bit warped, but the perception becomes reality. Future raises will be low end of low, and promotions will go to someone else. After all, "We are paying John Smith too much already. We have others that deserve something as wel
I have to ask... (Score:5, Interesting)
In my time there I have had no negative feedback...
Yeah, but have you received any positive feedback while you've been there? (I know you mention one promotion your got -- but anything else?) Maybe they think you're just an average employee.
GMD
Re:I have to ask... (Score:2)
Getting no negative feedback is very rare, given that people will complain that you didn't help them find the "any" key fast enough, or that it is your fault the Internet broke.
How'd you get there? (Score:3, Interesting)
I ask because I'm in the same boat. I got promoted during a salary freeze. No raise for me, so I'm under the minimum for my title as well.
I haven't resolved the problem, mainly because my company really is under financial pressure. It's hard to demand a raise when all of management took a 20% paycut so that use peons wouldn't get burned. (I wonder how many of you are hearing a story like that for the first time!)
However, if my company were to get on its feet again and continue to underpay me, I'd probably start shopping around for a new job. I'd likely play the "I have another offer, raise me or lose me" card. Unfortunately, I wouldn't dare do this without somewhere to go.
Okay, not a great solution, but I'd like to know how you got into that pickle.
An alternative compensation (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:An alternative compensation (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:An alternative compensation (Score:2)
Working is a privilege... not a right! (Score:4, Interesting)
If your job stinks... look for a better one.
If your job doesn't pay well... look for a better one.
Your boss isn't required (nor should be) by law to provide you with cake and also let you eat it.
The ball is in your court.
~foooo
Re:Working is a privilege... not a right! (Score:3, Insightful)
Employing ME is a privilege, not a right - and you have to pay me a fair sum for my time, enough so I don't go and spend my time working for someone else, or (heaven forbid) spend my time doing things for my own benefit, such as spending time with loved ones.
The ball is not just in my court, it's also in the court of my employer.
Re:Working is a privilege... not a right! (Score:2)
Right. Because your and your employer's court are actually the same one. I'd hate working under any other circumstances. Most of us will work for ~40 years, that's a long time to spend in own, isolated court. I'm with you.
Why not ask? (Score:3, Informative)
Why resort to leaving or invoking labour laws, why not schedule a meeting with your direct superior and discuss your concerns?
If that doesn't acheive the desired result, schedule a meeting with the next management level above them. Once you've exausted all of those avenues, then that would be the time to consider taking the actions that you mentioned.
You are worth what the market will bear (Score:5, Informative)
That said, in a down market like we tend to be in now, companies will tend to leave your salary alone and bring in people with lower salaries because that is all it takes to recruit someone into the company.
In my career, the only time I have gotten BIG increases in salary is when I have changed jobs (most of the time reluctantly, but twice because I wanted too) getting over 50% increases when I leave (vs. getting 5-10% raises for staying). This is the bassis for what I was saying above.
How do you deal with this. It depends on your faith in your job skills, and the relationship that you have with your management chain. Do you go to your manager and say... Listen, I fell that my job title deserves this pay, please lets work on how to get it together, or if you think he is going out of his way to screw you on pay (many people think this, when all they have to do is really ask, but it is a posibility) then it might be worth looking for another position within the company, or outside the company. I would however not recomend it with todays economy, wait a year or so for tech jobs to pick back up so you aren't faced with the same problem in 3 years
surf the net (Score:2, Funny)
do you like your job? (Score:2, Insightful)
Was in a similar situation and got a raise. (Score:4, Interesting)
I had been working for about 2 years and found out the new position equivelent to my own would be payed more. So I came in to my bosses office with my resume told him i quit and applied for the position.
We both knew I wasn't really quitting but it made my point and I got a small promotion and new salery a bit above the incomming position.
I don't recommend the quitting part but applying for the new position might not be a bad idea.
Re:Was in a similar situation and got a raise. (Score:2)
Glad it worked for ya though.
Re:Was in a similar situation and got a raise. (Score:2)
Any suggestions?!?! (Score:5, Funny)
Take a dump on the coffee room floor.
Moo (Score:3, Informative)
Of course not, with that attitude.
The best way is merely to mentione to your employer that you want more money. Mentioned that the less qualified are getting more. It would have worked for me. I was offered a 25% increase in salary for that very reason! I did leave, however, because i felt that they didn't care enough about me, and i found another job where i was more comfortable.
If you are truly valuable to them, and you ask, as oposed to complain, they will most probably help you.
Education? (Score:3, Insightful)
If you do have a degree, then you need to do some work. As many have suggested, sit down with the management, explain your position, and flat out ask them why you are being paid less. Prepare a resume of sorts that describes all of the ways you have contributed and improved things for your company. Any statistics and dollar figures you can use are the best ways to do this. Management likes to see cold hard numbers and dollar signs showing you saved money and increased efficiency. Make it as clear and objective as you can. If they refuse to look into the discrepancy, start looking for someplace else to work... and let them know you will be doing so.
Good luck!
I've been offered a raise (Score:2)
He asked if there was anything the company could do to keep me, and offered a 25% raise.
Just a little tidbit of experience to help you decide.
[and for those interested, I declined and took the admin job whi
HOWTO negotiate (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Making less then the minimum? (Score:4, Funny)
He pays them to work there.
Re:Making less then the minimum? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Making less then the minimum? (Score:2)
2. Make them pay you
3. PROFIT!!!!!!!!
Re:Making less then the minimum? (Score:2)
Having just graduated I'm almost to the point of considering that (pay for real-world work experience, no OSS doesnt count). Instead I'm being an entrepreneur for the summer.
Re:Making less then the minimum? (Score:2)
I hope to move into some form of wireless broadband supplier, although I'm still unsure about EU regulations for 2.4GHz, but at the moment I have a net worth of £-15,000, and barely any capital. The cheap cost of li
Re:Making less then the minimum? (Score:4, Insightful)
Insightful? It isn't obvious? Most places have a salary range for any given title. "The miminum we pay a nurse is $16 an hour". He's below that. Using the example I gave, he's a nurse making $13 an hour. Not trying to bash you (or the moderator) dude, but I'm a little baffled as to why that comment didn't make sense to you.
My question is: did he get into that position by a field promotion, or did they hold him back because he didn't have a full education in his field or something?
Re:Making less then the minimum? (Score:2)
At the end of the day, people who decide salaries are only human. It could be a mistake, it could be that the person is defficient in an area, it could be that the place wants him to leave but doesn't want to fire him. I'm being held back because I got promoted into a position I didn't go to college for. Figures.
"So where does this minimum come from?"
I'd like him to answer
Re:Making less then the minimum? (Score:3, Insightful)
From the context, it should be obvious that our complainant is stating that he makes $5k less than the average minimum paid for his level of experience, wherein "minimum" is the lower/lowest amount in the range normally paid the people doing the same job in his/her geographical area.
Not to be condescending, but professionals have no mandated minimum salaries, so the meaning should have been unambiguous.
Re:Making less then the minimum? (Score:2)
From the context, it should be obvious that our complainant is stating that he makes $5k less than the average minimum paid for his level of experience
What the hell is an average minimum?
wherein "minimum" is the lower/lowest amount in the range normally paid the people doing the same job in his/her geographical area.
Normally paid? How do you figure out whhat is the range normally paid? Obviously he's not making below the lowest amount paid to people in his geographical area.
Not to be condescendin
Re:Making less then the minimum? (Score:2)
i can tell you for sure tho, hiring an attorney for this is the last thing you want to do, unless you're itching to get fired.
Re:BLOW (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Hint at temptations (Score:2)
If you need me to break it down for you just ask, but that is easily 10% of the people in the USA that are taking home less than half of what they 'earn'.
Re:Hint at temptations (Score:2)
FICA : 15% (your 7.5% plus the employer matches that with another 7.5%)
California Income Tax : 9%
That is 49% right off the top leaving 51%
- 7.5% Sales Tax on the rest means multiply that by
Re:Hint at temptations (Score:2)
Re:Hint at temptations (Score:2)
That's cause youre not counting all the taxes. Remember gas taxes alone are about %50.
The average person pays about %30 in total income tax-- state and federal. On top of that they pay %16 in social security tax (though they only print %8 on your paycheck- don't be fooled by this accounting trickery-- you EARNED the %8 your employer "pays")... add medicare on top of that (which is what? %5) and you're at %51.
If your average sales tax costs (remember gas is %50 or higher when you count the multiple leve