Managing the Online Teenager? 189
Parenting Pains asks: "I've got two teenagers, whose peer group have 'discovered' the Internet over the course of this year. We've gone from two bright happy lively teenagers at the start of the year, to now having two people who rarely venture outdoors except under duress and are close to unbearable unless they're ensconced online with 'friends' on MSN for hours at a time. Over recent months, this has gone from mildly amusing to out of hand, with them spending up to 10-12 hours a day on weekends online with friends. Many Slashdot readers must have confronted this situation; how have you dealt with it, and what were the outcomes of what you did? Do you just let the kids stay online till they got sick of it, and how long did it take? Do you ban them from using MSN? Do you limit the number of hours they can be online?"
"When they're not online, they're grumpy, demanding, constantly nagging, etc. (i.e. normal teenagers) - frankly it's easier for us when they are online, but not for that many hours at a sitting.
We made a decision up front to trust their judgement and not monitor who they talk to and what they talk about, but I'm starting to question the wisdom of this right about now. Not for any specific reason; there's just a little nagging voice in the back of my mind telling me there's something wrong with this."
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
Re:pr0n (Score:2)
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:pr0n (Score:2)
Re:pr0n (Score:2)
Let them spend as much time at it as they want (Score:3, Insightful)
Just make sure to give them lots of chores.
Re:Let them spend as much time at it as they want (Score:2)
If you want them to develop computing skills get them shell accounts.
Re:Let them spend as much time at it as they want (Score:2)
Daniel
Re:Chores vs. Online Time (Score:3, Insightful)
As a result I have developed a weird mishmash of arbitrary rules and semi-biblical provisions which has served me well. OK, I'm lying, it hasn't served me well - but - it's a starting point. To wit:
On the division of FREETIME it shall be thus:
1/2 of the time shall be spent doing th
Re:Chores vs. Online Time (Score:2)
Yeah, because you definately shouldn't leave it up to the children to decide what deities they wish to believe in, if any.
Where are the computers? (Score:5, Insightful)
Only have 1-2 computers in your house with internet access and place them in 'common' areas. That way you can better monitor their online usage and curb it back.
Re:Where are the computers? (Score:2, Interesting)
If I had no computer in my room when I was growing up, I have no idea where I would be today.
Sure, sometimes I spent 7+ hours a day on it during the summer, but I'm also not out of highschool yet and am proficient in Perl, PHP, MySQL, and C++. I run Gentoo Linux servers, and make good money with technical jobs.
Without a computer of my own, I would have never b
Re:Where are the computers? (Score:2)
Yes, maybe sitting in the dark drinking coffee and staring at my subwoofer for hours at a time is a sign that I should cut back on the computer time.
But we know it's not gonna happen. Things similar to this happen when I work on a computer without gcc. Without one at all......arrgghh.... it's horrible
Re:Where are the computers? (Score:2)
My wife thinks I'm crazy, but has learned to deal with it. The funny part is, she keeps hearing me talk about "uptime" but hasn't figured out that its a compute
Re:Where are the computers? (Score:2)
Here's our family's approach to managing the computer:
Re:Where are the computers? (Score:2)
In addition, I have disabled AOL messenger that came with our Mac and placed a general ban on IMing. Not that I police it much, but it deters enough. As a result, my kids have not yet developed the atrocious vocabulary and spelling you typically see on IM.
My 16 year old girl has admin privileges on the family Mac, because I know I can trust her not to mess up
Re:Where are the computers? (Score:2)
Did my parents ban phone use? No, but I didn't grow up in the US. Living in the US now and hearing and seeing people using their phones, I do put time limits on phone calls, too, for everyone in the family. And my kids don't complain. Go figure.
Re:Where are the computers? (Score:2)
1) I could use an old 486 however much I wanted, whenever I wanted, for whatever I wanted. Note that this computer didn't have a modem, and was situated in the family computer room, where anyone passing by could see the screen.
2) I could use my parents' P133 whenever nobody else was, but I had to ask if I wanted to go online, as the modem shared a line with the phone.
3) If I wanted to download porn, or other "disapproved" activities, I had to do so using a computer I pur
Re:Where are the computers? (Score:2)
I'm older now and spend most of my "freetime" on the computer and its actually starting to bother me (as well as my wife). My own dog has trained herself to go into the office right when I get home...
Trust me, spending a lot of time in front of the computer when
Some ideas from a non-parent (Score:5, Insightful)
Anyway, this will come off a bit odd, but buy a case of Bawls, and lan party with them.
Seriously.
If they're taking an interest in online activities, my gut tells me the best thing you can do is get involved. Be active and supportive.
True, getting outside and being active is important as well (perhaps join a gym, get into a workout regimine and encourage them to join you?), but if they're going to use the computer, make sure you have a part in it.
As a side note, since teenagers seem to take some amount of joy in parental rebellion, they may actually wind up spending LESS time online, simply because you're taking an interest in their activities.
Just some thoughts.
Re:Some ideas from a non-parent (Score:2, Insightful)
I was raised on the computer. I turned the computer on by myself at age 3 and made ran a program my father had found called Mandala (effectively pretty changing colors). I have been playing video games since the late 2's. My mother and father both worked involving computers for a fair while, and thus it has worn off on me, but they have shown them to me as a choice.
I spend a good amount of time on the computer, and most of it is spen
Re:Some ideas from a non-parent (Score:2)
Re:Some ideas from a non-parent (Score:2)
Re:Some ideas from a non-parent (Score:2)
I recommend paintball. The field I go to has a $15-$25 fee to play all day (9-5 or so), and you will burn more calories than just about any other recreational activity.
Martial arts are good too. I take ninjutsu on Tuesdays and Thursdays.
I mention this because I've always disliked the idea of going to gyms, particularly when I was a teenager, but even then I would h
Re:Some ideas from a non-parent (Score:2)
I would concur and also add that the original poster should just not worry. When I was in mid highscool I got access to the local college's VAX through a dialup connection... and discovered IRC. (Internet Relay Chat - a world wide live chat room system that predates MSN or "the Web" as you might commonly think of it.) For several months I would get home from school and get online and hang out in chat rooms till time to sleep. And then I got a girlfriend, and got over it.
The interent
Hey dad (Score:5, Funny)
Go stand in the corner young man. (Score:3, Insightful)
and GET OFF OF THAT COMPUTER! I have MRTG down here, and I know how to use it. I cut off your default gateway just like that!
Re:Go stand in the corner young man. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Go stand in the corner young man. (Score:2)
Re:Go stand in the corner young man. (Score:2)
And if we wanted information, we WALKED TO THE LIBRARY!
Sheesh. Youngsters these days.
AND GET OUT OF MY YARD! {shakes cane at children}
Re:Go stand in the corner young man. (Score:2)
ground them... (Score:4, Funny)
make them cook their own food, do their own laundry, etc. give them good reasons to leave the PC.
eventually they'll grow out of it, but it could be years and years before they complete that on their own.
help them hate the computer, force them to use IE, force them to go through a proxy where everything they do is monitored. disallow them from installing new software. make them hate the computer. they'll either give up or become so good at computers that their online time will turn into a career.
or you can just do what my dad did when i was hooked on nintendo. pull the fuse and hide it.
Re:ground them... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:ground them... (Score:2)
I know that the way it would have worked for _ME_ as a teenager is that I would have learned how to encrypt my communications. You want to monitor me? Break out the beowulf.
Geeks? (Score:4, Insightful)
If they're geeks then you're probably squashing something useful by forcing the off the computer. I know this by experience. I feel restricted by my parents who are constantly forcing me to do other things, which makes it nearly impossible to do some things I've always wanted to, like clan gaming. On the more productive side, there's nothing more annoying than a parent nagging you to get off the computer when you're in the middle of coding a serious project (debugging even more so). Adding on to that however, I have been working at an IT related job for the last 4 months and both my parents and myself have seen a significant decline in the amount of time I spend on the computer at home. Getting an IT related job might be a little tricky; I think I just got lucky.
If they aren't geeks, get them off that damn computer. Their time is much better wasted smoking up and getting hammered at some party. Maybe if they're lucky they'll have a kid before they finish high school.
Re:Geeks? (Score:3, Insightful)
If they're going to spend a lot of time on the box, *force* them to learn something new. Switch the computer to linux and make them use it to get to their IM client. Introduce them to HTML or PHP, install the stuff on your own computer and host a small webserver. Do anything to make them learn.
Computer skills
Re:Geeks? (Score:2)
Sure learning linux is neat, but if you just had always started with linux, it would be as easy as windows. I guess versatility is good, but don't put them out there not knowing windows backw
Who cares? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Who cares? (Score:5, Interesting)
My parents and I talked about school but doing schoolwork was my responsibility and I got decent grades.
My parent's attitude was that as long as I acted responsibly, they let me have wide freedom.
To the OP, if your kids are being responsible with their life, I'd say no worries, they're better off then 90% of the people out there. OTOH, if they are being generally irresponsible by measureable means (failing classes, perpetually getting in late at night, not doing important housework), you should talk to them and figure out why they arn't living up to your expectations. Assuming the computer causes the problems is unproductive and may result in adressing the symptom instead of the cause. In general, trust your kids until they give you reason not to.
Re:Who cares? (Score:3, Interesting)
Basically I never talked to people till I got online. I found kali for gameing online in dos and pretty much did that with all my free time. I got a job around 16 years old, worked there part time for 2 1/2 years during highscool and quit when I went to college.
Every free second of time outside of work
Use the Microsoft stratigy (Score:2)
It's not the time. It's the topic. (Score:4, Insightful)
I spent at least ten hours a day on the computer when I was a teenager. However, I spent it learning to program and other things that later landed me a great high-paying career.
But kids don't do this anymore. The computer and the internet have simply turned into a "chat toy" and - at best - a gaming console. The idea of putting a computer together and then learning it inside out (meaning more than just how to USE applications and surf the net) is passe. And it's sad.
this same thing happened to my brother (Score:2, Insightful)
one thought: hop on the internet with them. start showing them all the neat things on the internet where they can learn more about little projects they could replicate or even enhance at home. anything to get their minds churning. that way they get the motivation to get off their butts themselves!
also, i would encourage them to go to their friends house
How's this different from the real world? (Score:3, Insightful)
They did put 'friends' in quotes... (Score:2)
Re:They did put 'friends' in quotes... (Score:2)
Usually there aren't - in as much as the "real people" are the same as the "on line people they pretend to be".
Back in the day (this was with IRC, before the term "IM" was even coined) I used to meet a lot of people "in real life" that I only knew from online interaction and - surprisingly at the time, but much less so now - very few of them acted the same way in face to face social situations as they did online.
Re:They did put 'friends' in quotes... (Score:2)
IRC is a cesshole, that may be the difference.
Re:How's this different from the real world? (Score:2)
Re:How's this different from the real world? (Score:2)
> thing he should intervene to help build his kids' character.
How will refraining from IM build his kids' character? What I see is a parent who doesn't spend much time with his kids, but now sees they are on the Internet (oh, the evil Internet!) and by golly, he must "intervene" or else... or else... Well, I guess nothing that wouldn't have happened anyway.
Re:How's this different from the real world? (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes, but it's a "communication method" that a) lacks most (if not all) of the (very important) dynamics of "real" communication and b) encourages and reinforces bad habits.
People's "online personas" tend to be very different to their "real life personas" - generally more aggressive and arrogant. Even a relatively limited communication medium like the telephone produces a much more complex interaction due to things like pronunciation, intonation, timing, etc that - at best - are almost completely lacking from IM. This is before we get into the dynamics of face to face interaction like facial expressions and body language.
To put it more succintly, people act substantially differently in IM-style social interactions compared to more traditional methods. A lot of IMing will *not* prepare you well for - nor should be considered the equivalent of - "real" face-to-face social interaction.
Then there's the bad habits, like poor spelling and grammar, and shrinking vocabularies (I blame TV and poor English curriculums more for *causing* these, but IM *reinforces* them).
And before you go off on a rant about how I don't "get it", I grew up as a fairly heavy IRC user from ~1992 to ~2000. I make the comments above in critical hindsight, not ignorance.
Would you nag them as much if they were chatting on the phone instead?
I'd hope not - the telephone is a vastly superior "communcations method" than IM from a social perspective.
Would you be equally concerned if they spent ten hours a day with their friends in real life?
Again, IM is vastly inferior to face-to-face communcations from a social perspective.
Who said anything about preparing? (Score:3, Insightful)
> nor should be considered the equivalent of -
> "real" face-to-face social interaction.
Easy now. I wasn't suggesting that everyone just live in IM from birth. IM is not supposed to prepare you for anything, and neither is talking on the phone. It is about communication. Sure it is not as rich as a face-to-face meeting, but for most purposes it is perfectly adequate. People don't learn their social skills on IM just as they don't learn to swim by be
Re:Who said anything about preparing? (Score:2)
Well, in the context it certainly appeared you were suggesting IM to be an equal substitute to "real" social interaction :).
People don't learn their social skills on IM just as they don't learn to swim by being dropped in the deep end of the ocean. A child does not learn social skills while using IM and I would not expect hi
Get them outside and able to interact with people (Score:5, Insightful)
I what you described was very similar to my own computer usage habits in my teen years. I was a social introvert, and felt like I could communicate more easily over IRC.
What i've now realized is that this very stale and limited form of communication (words pale in comparison to things such as body language, tone, eye contact) had curbed my ability to socialize with people in real life. I was not able to handle all of this information being thrown at me when I talked to someone face to face, it became overwhelming. And I became a jerk for a big part of it, what i thought would be sarcastic or witty jokes, ended up being horrible offenses against the people I was talking to, for the very fact that taken as a string of words, it wasn't much, but saying it face to face with a person, making eye contact, etc. changed its meaning.
What helped me break out of this was some serious away from computer community building experiences. I went to a non traditional boarding school (http://www.shackleton.org) that forced me to deal with people face to face. Once I was able to discover a sense of closeness with people there, being online just felt fake. There are other options too, outward bound is a good one, that will not only get your kids outside for a couple of weeks, but really push their limits and help them figure out what they are capable of.
I would also suggest limiting their internet access, and having them do outside sports, interaction with people, jobs, and physical exercise, all of which helped me through the difficult stages of puberty and figure out with a little more clarity what I wanted to do with my life.
I also suggest you take a look at "Letters at 3Am: Reports on Endarkenment" By Michael Ventura, specifically the essay "Age of endarkenment" which is an amazing piece on puberty in western cultures. Also take a look at "Shame and Pride: Affect, Sex, and the Birth of the Self" by Donald Nathanson.
And talk to your kids, tell them about your life growing up and what it was like at that time, not in a shaming way or a contrived way, but just share your experiences with what they may be going through.
I am not a shrink, or a developmental psychologist or anything of that nature, I have had to deal with my own puberty and I am currently in a stage in my life self relfecting on it and these are the things that I (and my therapist) have discovered to be helpful.
Can't Be Hands Off (Score:3, Insightful)
As for limiting their time that's realatively easy. The same software above can be used to limit hours of overall use, amount of time in specific programs, etc. You can give them lots of time for say using Word to write papers and less time for certain games or online activities. Also, don't forget the value of spending that off time with them (nor that of get-togethers with friends). Take them on family and one-to-one outings. Again, treat the computer the way you would any other activity -- actively manage it.
Most important to the above is to talk with your children and explain your thinking. I would not suggest going at it by parental fiat -- don't install the software one night while their sleeping. Explain to them your concerns AND your desire to spend time with them. Install it and show them how it works (not the admin part ;-).
Sullen and moody? That's in part something we as parents have to work around but it's best not to let it run unchecked. The same rapport and good relationship that allows you to spend time online with them and go on outings should help break past the bearer and find the child and attitude you'd rather have around the house.
Cancel the Internet (Score:2, Insightful)
Sure, there was resentment at first, but in the cousr of a month, the whole family is back to normal.
Simple solution... (Score:3, Funny)
Ha, this one is easy (Score:4, Funny)
Pretty soon they will be either off the Internet, or discussing the kernel fork pros and cons in specialized mailing lists.
Re:Ha, this one is easy (Score:2)
> messenger, they will need to compile the desktop
> environment for the latest kernel, meanwhile using wget.
I'm afraid on Linux a better suggestion is: "if you want to run instant messenger, you'll have to research the IM protocol and write the client yourself." Because whenever they want to do something right, this is where things will end up.
Re:Ha, this one is easy (Score:2)
Re:Ha, this one is easy (Score:2)
a plethora of options (Score:2)
Easy: get them wireless access. The Danger Hiptop [danger.com] might work.
And, don't worry, once they discover real sex, they will venture outside again.
Do you ban them from using MSN?
Sounds like a good idea. They should be using Jabber.
Do you limit the number of hours they can be online?"
Oops, darn, what a shame, Windows crashed again. Kids, it will take me a few hours to reinstall. Sooner or later, they'll catch on and just install Lin
Re:a plethora of options (Score:2)
Things must be a lot different where you live.
Where I live, people who have sex outside get jailed.
Take the initiative. (Score:2)
Well, you're the parent, do something about it! You don't mention what you've tried to get them unhooked so I can only assume that you haven't done anything yet. Take the initiative. Lay down the rules. Don't know what the rules should be? Make some up. It's more important to have rules at all than to have perfect ones.
Oh, and you probably waited too long.
If it were my kids in this situation and it had gotten this far out of hand and they got all up in arms over a few limitations, I would say this:
"Okay,
There's a few dangers (Score:2)
Second of all, warn them about social anxiety and depression. Let them know that the longer they avoid going out and doing things, the harder it will become. This could impact them severely and could result in regret and lonelyness.
Control freaks never win. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Control freaks never win. (Score:2)
Sure, growing up is h
Re:Control freaks never win. (Score:2)
No, but I used to be one. I believe that qualifies me to pass judgement on poor parenting methods. (Although not necessarily to offer better ones)
> Issues like sexual predators and hate sites children may not fully understand.
I'm afraid that you are the one who doesn't understand the issues like sexual predators and hate sites. Sexual predators are so few in number, that your child is much more likely to be abducted by aliens than by one of them. It is the media that
Re:Control freaks never win. (Score:3, Insightful)
Two problems here:
1. The poster's educated guess that you had no children was right. Think about it.
2. I don't have children, but I was one. That gives me exactly the same qualifications that you tout for yourself: yet I disagree wholeheartedly with you.
Jobs. (Score:2)
That will force them to get jobs or even just do chores (cleaning their rooms, shoveling snow, whatever).
Once they've got responsibility, they will have less time to spend online and more time becoming responsible members of society.
It's normal; they'll grow out of it. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:It's normal; they'll grow out of it. (Score:2)
Many people might actually prefer committing suicide than face massive embarassment.
Kids no matter how smart shouldn't be expected to know as much of the far reaching consequences of their actions as their parents.
It's fine for parents to be benevolent dictators over their children. That's their job.
Sure you can argue it's brainwashing, but if you d
Use pf's authpf to enable the gateway (Score:2)
There's this page [archlug.org].
I'm assuming your kids use windows. Can't help you there - but if you can setup a unix-like router [openbsd.org] you might be able to implement some of these....
If you can restrict access to a unix machine acting as a router that's running PF [openbsd.org], you could use AuthPF [openbsd.org] to enable or disable a NAT connection to your child's box. Just have them ssh in when they want to use the machine and they either get logged out automatically [daemonnews.org] somehow or logout when they're done. (It's not hard. Putty wit
Re:Use pf's authpf to enable the gateway (Score:2)
I stayed out late, got in t
Asking Slashdot of all Places (Score:2)
Your asking this on slashdot and you don't already know the answer? Seems to me you don't spend enough time on your computer. Who are you to judge your offspring if you yourself can't even keep 'with it'?
The solution (Score:2)
-l
Be a parent for g-d's sake. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Be a parent for g-d's sake. (Score:2)
"The computer" is a wildly different beast, because it's so versatile. If a child is locked in his room on the computer, he could be doing anything from homework,
Is this slashdot? (Score:2, Insightful)
Consider all the other possible things teenagers tend
Priviliges are Earned (Score:2, Interesting)
They're addicted. (Score:2)
While it's arguably okay for them to be social online instead of outdoors, they're not respecting you.
Cut them off. When they stop acting like a couple of petulant children, then they've earned the right to get back online.
Don't restrict them for no reason. Don't cut them off just because you're the parent. Make damned sure that they know that *their* actions have triggered these consequences.
(As a side note, I was raised with next to no supervision on the Internet, and allowed to stay o
Rings a bell... (Score:3, Funny)
Many Slashdot readers must have confronted this situation;
indeed!
how have you dealt with it,
vi hosts
slashdot.org 127.0.01
and what were the outcomes of what you did?
Once again having a sex life and showering regularly?
Nice and simple... (Score:2)
Perhaps gently taunt them for greasy hair and unwashed flab? Give them nicknames like "biscuits" and "spotty"? Not sure if raising kids is like raising kittens...
Porn and kids (Score:3, Interesting)
Two months ago, both their machines were unusable because of mounds of malware. The older boy had a lousy porn collection but it was clear he'd been massively deleting stuff because he knew I was coming over. The stuff I did find was disturbing enough that I had a long talk with Mom. She, however, didn't want to believe her precious darlings would willingly download the sort of content that could get them thrown in jail. I reached an agreement with her that I'd do this one more time if she agreed not to warn the boys the next time it was going to happen. I rebuilt both machines from scratch - Win2K, ZA, Ad-Aware, AVG, Firefox, and all the updates. Now, one machine is again inoperative and the other is so slow Mom wants to just go buy a new one.
So, without the boys knowing, I'm going to audit the state of their computers and prepare a report for mom. I have pretty good suspicions about why they wanted the digital cameras and webcams that don't leave their rooms. I have pretty good suspicions about what was in those directories with the names I won't print here. But delivering the report to Mom isn't something I'm looking forward to.
The original poster is questioning the decision he made to allow computers in the bedrooms of his teens. Based on what I've seen, if I ever have kids there is no freakin' way they'll have access to any computer behind a closed door until they're at least of legal age to do in person the things they'll be tempted to do on cam.
I have a feeling that if he'd just move the computers to a common area, half his problems would disappear.
Oh, and btw, when I finish I'm wiping both machines and installing some barebones flavor of linux that I'll strip of pretty much everything except a web browser and an office suite. I want them to be able to do basic schoolwork in their bedrooms but Mom can buy them another Windows machine for games and other assorted diversions.
Start by treating computer like old TV (Score:2)
For our kids, we did this, with great success:
be creative.. (Score:2)
Dont put the computer in their room. Unless you have an obvious nerd. In which case you probably
Well (Score:2)
Banning them because they won't go outside and waste their time standing around would prove that you're a moron. Standing over them playing Big Brother proves you're untrustworthy, and that net-surfing should be while your back is turned to prevent you from going psychotic over it. Buying into all the 'net monitor' scams does the same, only with more guarantee of your kids becoming furious with your behavior.
Eithe
Heed the little nagging voice (Score:2, Insightful)
Having been that kind of person, and moved past... (Score:4, Insightful)
(1) The worst possible thing you can do would be to monitor their activities online. Don't even snoop around in their history files, logs, etc. If there's something you don't want them doing (looking at porn, etc.) then make sure they know that "if they get caught" that bad things will happen -- but don't take any real steps to enforce it. Unless they do something dumb (leave porn on the screen while they leave the room, etc.) it's n not worth it. Monitoring just breeds an atmosphere of distrust anyway: you want them to trust you, and it's a mutual thing: if you want them to trust you, you have to trust them somewhat.
(2) Encourage them, but in a different way. For the first couple years I was in high school, it was difficult for me to see my friends due to geographic seperation (about 30 min. apart) and even then, my mother didn't really like my friends since she made various unfounded assumptions about the kind of people they were, based on stereotypes and rumor. So, even when I had the time to see them, frequently I couldn't. Assuming you don't think that your children's friends are satan incarnate, encourage them to invite people over. My last few years of high school (when I got fed up with the geographic seperation and found friends who were a lot closer to me) my parents liked the new set of friends a lot better, for whatever reason, and every other week or so I'd have 10-ish people over to my house, and we'd make a nuisance of ourselves, etc. My parents liked it for two reasons: (1) They got to meet my friends, or at least see them in person, rather than just hearing about them, and (2) I was socializing. Now, admittedly, when I had friends in the area, I would never stay home to be on the computer instead of going out with them, but they didn't really catch on to that. So, conclusion: encourage your children to invite their friends to your house. and don't give them too much trouble if the music is loud, or there's people running all over the place.
(3) Since you seem to be the Slashdot parent, I'm sure you've got considerably computer skills. Option 3 is a bit more nefarious: Make the Internet have "issues" whenever you think they've been on it for too much. Whether the issue is "I needed to cut your ethernet cable so I have the full connection, because I'm working from home on an important project" or the issue is "the Internet's been really flaky all day today, something must be wrong up the line somewhere" or "the modem burned out" or anything. Set up some kind of a BSD box...impose bandwidth limits, forced-latency, occasionally remove their NATting so they can't get anywhere, etc. Wage a covert war against it.
(3) is the worst thing you could do, but it is a viable last resort.
I didn't socialize much my first few years of high school, since it was difficult for me both in terms of time and transportation. Then, when I had transportation, I still didn't because my parents made it so difficult for me to do so: call every hour when you're with those people, you have to be back at 11, etc. The "management overhead" involved with seeing those friends was made so high, it was seldom worth it for me to do it, if I had to deal with phoning in every so often, and leave in time to be back by their deadline. Once I started disobeying their restrictions so often they gave up enforcing them, I went out a bit more, but even so the driving time was a pain. I didn't really start doing things in my free time outside of the house, until I found local friends. *shrug* Your milage may vary.
This was all a couple years ago, I'm since out of high school obviously, but those things were my experience.
Re:I went thru this myself (teenager point of view (Score:5, Insightful)
No, no, no. Your job as a parent is not to be your child's friend. Your job as a parent is to raise these children to be productive, successful, responsible adults (where "success" should not be defined solely in terms of money). THEY do not need to figure it out. YOU do. YOU need to take the responsibility to teach them responsibility - where else will they learn it from, their teenage friends who are going through the same growth process (hormones, brain still growing, etc.)?
That said, YOU also have to determine if it is actually a problem or not. Putting the computers in a public area is more than reasonable - but same goes for other activities, like TV, game consoles, etc. The bedroom should be a private place where a child can go to relax, find refuge, do homework. It shouldn't be Disneyland.
Chances are, if the computer is in a public area, 10-12 hours per weekend of online time won't be a bad thing. But YOU will be in a better position to make that judgement. And THEY will be less likely to try.
Just my 2 cents.
Re:I went thru this myself (teenager point of view (Score:2)
"Everybody follow me, we're going streaking through the quad. COME ON!!!"
Re:I went thru this myself (teenager point of view (Score:2)
I don't know about that. I do know that I've never had a computer or a television in my room until very recently, when I moved out of the house. Instead of spending hours in my room on the computer, I spent hours in the common area on the computer.
My little sister used to use the phone all of the time. She would go insane if you didn't let her use it, with all of her whining and screaming. She then discovered AIM, and it completely opened up the phone for everyone else. She used to bitch at me to get
Re:I went thru this myself (teenager point of view (Score:2)
Plus, if you don't set some rules, who are they going to rebel against?
Seriously, the struggle to establish their own independent identity is an important part of becoming an adult. If you just sit back and "trust their judgement," then they will become independent by the default, because you've declared yourself irrelevant. If you set arbitrary, inflexible and unreasonable rules, you are likewise out of the picture.
So, I say set clear, reasonable and strict rules then make them argue a reasoned c
Re:I truly pity your children. (Score:2)
Whyise being their friend and fulfilling your "job" of raising them mutually exclusive?
Simple. Because a parent/child relationship is uniquely different from a friend/friend (peer/peer) relationship. It blurs the lines of authority between parent and child, and when you have to change from "friend" to "parent", it confuses the child. This is not to say that you should not be friendly, on the contrary! Only that lines of authority should never be blurred. Age-appropriate boundaries, and the enforceme
Re:I went thru this myself (teenager point of view (Score:3, Insightful)
Have you tried... your friends' houses? Or inviting them over? Or meeting somewhere? That used to be a popular way for kids to talk back when the Earth's crust was still molten, in the 70s'. (You even got to see them that way.) Or if that's too retro for you, how about talking on the phone like kids did in the neolithic 80's (landline) and medieval 90's (cell)?
Mod up! (Score:2)
If your teenager is spending too much time on the telephone, pull the cord out of the wall.
That said, make sure you know what your kids are doing online. No, I don't mean spying. I mean are they IMing their friends, IMing some letcher or
Re:Mod up! (Score:2)
Re:Set boundries! (Score:2, Insightful)
The kids get free and they go wild.
Drinking, sex, net, gambling you name it. The more balanced kids tend to be those of us who had trust, broke it, learnt things the hard way, found out for ourselves, survived on fast food whilst on our own long enough to decide how to cook etc.
Re:Set boundries! (Score:2)
I'm not a parent or anything, and not well versed (yet) in proxy servers, but being that this is
Dad - unlimited usage 24/7
Mom - unlimited usage 24/7
Child1 - 2 hours per day, 8am-10pm
Child2 - 5 hours per
Re:DSL box locked in closet... (Score:2)
kids. Real food (not frozen fast food), real table, real manners,
real conversation. It makes for a connection between you, it puts
some schedule in them, civilizes the savages.
But you have already been doing that with them up to this point,
right? (Teenage years might be a difficult time to start.)
-kb, the Kent without kids, but also the Kent who ate dinner with his
family when growing up.
Re:Look in the mirror (Score:3, Interesting)
It's certainly obvious that there is some estrangement between this guy and his teens, and it's possible that some of the blame is his, but I think you're a little quick to place the blame.
Kids in our society are messed up. Not surprising, since this messing up has been the goal of many elements in our society for years. Look at the TV kids are watching, and the way the corporate powers seek to advertise to them. The adult world is port