Rugged Mini-DV Camcorder for the Road? 209
step asks: "As part of my job, I (and my colleagues) spend weeks at a time on the road, doing science shows for high school students. To review our work, we carry DV camcorders to tape and watch our performances. Unfortunately, all the previous models we've tried haven't lasted more than 12 months on the road (and not from lack of care). When returned for repair we were told that they weren't faulty, just not up to the task.
We don't need a full feature camera, just solid reliable recording and playback. In fact, simple is probably better to accommodate the most users.
What experience has Slashdot had with camcorders? What's a good model that can handle lots of travel?"
this is a rugged one.... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:this is a rugged one.... (Score:2)
Re:this is a rugged one.... (Score:3, Funny)
http://www.lionlmb.org/quad/tr70b_1.jpg [lionlmb.org]
or, if you don't bang it around much and keep it clean, try a canon elura series, my -65 has been good s
Re:this is a rugged one.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Not if they're made for professionals. Which brings me to the question that must be asked - if you are shooting something as part of your job, why are you using a consumer-grade camcorder?
To the article submitter: my guess is when these repairmen told you that your cameras weren't "up to the task" that they also told you to buy a camcorder made for the task. There are many such models available. Go to any decent camera store (B [bhphotovideo.com]
Re:this is a rugged one.... (Score:2)
Sony PD-150 (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Sony PD-150 (Score:2)
Thou... If they said they can't get any MiniDV cam to last more than 12 months, I wouldn't put my money on semi-pro cams either.
There has to be a line of products for extreme conditions from some company. I haven't seen such this far.
(*doodles with his Sony DCR-HC19 which has so dinky foily mechanics that even loading a new cassette is a risk*)
Re:Sony PD-150 (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Sony PD-150 (Score:3, Insightful)
I dunno about that. They're a pain in the ass to use (for example, if you set the white balance and then adjust the aperture, you can't change the white balance again without undoing the aperture setting), and they don't really hold up all that well. My school gives them out to film students, and they're in crappy condition after only a couple of semesters of use--people complain about dropouts all the time, even though they're DVCAM and should be more or less immune to that (and that's not to mention all
Solid state video recording (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Solid state video recording (Score:2)
Re:Solid state video recording (Score:2)
Re:Solid state video recording (Score:2)
Re:Solid state video recording (Score:2)
The problem with these (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:The problem with these (Score:2)
As far as the cheap ones got, its even worse. Some record as MPEG-4.
Re:Solid state video recording (Score:2)
Re:Solid state video recording (Score:2)
Rugged Manly cameras (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Rugged Manly cameras (Score:2, Insightful)
Good move. Go to a store and buy which ever camera you don't break. I'm guessing they will also make you pay for the ones you managed to break.
Google is your friend (Score:2, Informative)
http://reviews.cnet.com [cnet.com]
If you are going to use it for your profession, (Score:2, Redundant)
Re:If you are going to use it for your profession, (Score:2, Informative)
Hard-drive based camcorder? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Hard-drive based camcorder? (Score:2)
There are two models I'm aware of - one has a 3 CCD pickup sensor which sounds very interesting. From the stuff I've seen, the lense lets the camera down with the previous model (non-3CCD) but this may be different now.
Real hard disk drive based camcorders coming soon. (Score:4, Informative)
For those that like the sound of this line of cameras but would like to see more storage capacity, JVC has apparently announced they're going to start making Everios using 20GB and 30GB hard drives. This new line will supposedly support Mac editing in iMovie for those who want that sort of thing (older models did not offer this). I've attached a the link to the JVC press release for those who want to read up about it.
Reference URL:D =1 [jvc.com]
http://www.jvc.com/press/index.jsp?item=461&pageI
Disclaimer: Please note that I do not own an Everio, nor any other camcorder, so I am not in a position to make any authorative recommendations or comparisons, let alone attest to their durability. My opinions are void where prohibited.
Re:Hard-drive based camcorder? (Score:3, Insightful)
Four gigabytes can only hold about 16 minutes worth of DV quality video. I imagine you could lengthen it by using MPEG-4 but there probably are compromises involved if you plan to do a lot of editing with it.
Re:Hard-drive based camcorder? (Score:3, Informative)
It has a bitrate of 25Mbps, compare that with MPEG4: less then 1Mbps. For the same quality video I might add. Even a DVD is 5Mbps, and that is MPEG2 - which also was designed for low CPU (and memory) usage. (MPEG4 if it's not obvious was designed for the best compression possible.)
There is no problem with editing, the only reason they don't use MPEG4 is CPU usage.
Useful [videohelp.com]
Re:Hard-drive based camcorder? (Score:4, Insightful)
Oh, and MPEG-1/2 also has some additional design constraints that were removed for MPEG-4, such as the requirement to be able to easily skip one frame backwards (MPEG-4 was designed for streaming, MPEG-1/2 were designed for local playback), so MPEG-4 doesn't encode reverse-interframe information. If you want to jump one frame backwards in MPEG-4, you jump back to the previous keyframe (often 100 or so frames back), and then calculate the deltas for every single intermediate frame. Try editing that...
As to the link you posted, I am very suspicious of a chart which groups Sorenson, MPEG-4 and Cinepak in the same column...
Re:Hard-drive based camcorder? (Score:2)
Re:Hard-drive based camcorder? (Score:3, Interesting)
This was what I thought.
I bought a Sony camcorder three years ago, and it still works like new. I expect that this is because I don't use it very often for filming. In fact, it gets more use taking stills than shooting film. But it gets carried around a lot, even more than my Canon SLR.
My brother in law also had a Sony camcorder, but he used it a lot. The tape transport gave up a few months ago. Repair would cost as much as a new camcorder...
If the weak part of the camcorder is the tape transport,
Re:Hard-drive based camcorder? (Score:2)
If the tape drive is the most frigile part of the camera, this would extend it's life.
Re:Hard-drive based camcorder? (Score:2, Interesting)
I have no idea why, in
Panasonic (Score:5, Interesting)
It can be had on Ebay for $600 package deals.
I second the PV-GS150 (Score:2)
3CCDs just look better than 1CCD systems (videolink - resizes your window) [tentoe.com] You can even see the difference in the lcd screens of the camcorders if you compare the two. The Panasonic's image is a standout in both color and clarity. I have a Panasonic FZ20 digital cam (nice shot - link resizes your window) [panasonic.com] and I can attest to the quality of the Leica lens on there as well.
Re:Panasonic (Score:2)
I truly believe that Panasonic is the best kept secret in the consumer electronics world. They are the only single brand, that I've *never* had a problem with, and whose products I have always been 100% pleased. They have never let me down.
They don't seem to get the hype or advertise as much as S
Try asking people that really abuse their kit.. (Score:3, Interesting)
It has finally started giving me grief however, not at the tape transport, but the auto-focus mechanism (which sometimes sticks).
My advice would be to post a polite note on a skydiving forum and find out what people there recommend.
Good luck.
Inexpensive redundancy. (Score:5, Insightful)
Since you asked, I've had good experience with a hand-sized Sony DCR-PC9 -- it's been beat up but remains completely functional and reliable.
Re:Inexpensive redundancy. (Score:2)
Don't do this on Slashdot (Score:5, Informative)
I've heard some of the worst misconception about audio and video on these forum spoken as if they were the mother of all truth and moderated +5 something because of it.
Anyways, In my experience the Panasonic AG-DVX100AP is a very good camera for the price and it's very sturdy, we are using it for coorporate events and music shows where we need to do a lot of travelling shots or if we need to move a lot between shots since it's light, hold pretty well and has a very good picture, the quality is surprising, then again it's a 3CCD camera if I remember well so it does help. As for extra sturdiness use a road case with internal padding, you know those case that are reinforced with metal, are usually black and are kept close with those cool twist-latches, they are expensive but they are also worth it.
Re:Don't do this on Slashdot (Score:2)
As long as it's +5 Funny, that shouldn't be a problem though? *ducks*
Re:Don't do this on Slashdot (Score:2)
Hopefully anyone who has counted the number of posts in this topic suggesting the use of MPEG-4 for editing will realise this very quickly...
Re:Don't do this on Slashdot (Score:4, Funny)
That's just because you know a little bit about audio-visual. I assure you -- if you knew a bit about other tech subjects, you'd quickly realize that Slashdot is the worst place for any kind of advice.
Re:Don't do this on Slashdot (Score:2)
The best known brand of such is Pelican [pelican.com]. They can protect against fairly high drops, are watertight and durable, and float pretty well... assuming you close the case after putting in the camera. However, if you visit the Everglades, remember the case does not always remain waterti
Re:Don't do this on Slashdot (Score:2)
2-In my field camera can reach way more than that, hence the low price point I implied, he did ask for a rugged camera he probably doesnt expect to do it at 1000$ (I hope for him)
3-the fact that the cam is 3CCD is mostly irrelevant, I use them and install them for live event, as long as there is a beautifull picture on the screen those details don't matter, they are good for the salesman, repair guy and marketing, the end result counts, not the
Re:Don't do this on Slashdot (Score:2)
For one, more/larger chips = more light. As someone that does live events, you should be acutely aware of this fact. A single-chip image falls apart in low light. And while the 1CCD cams are doing very well nowadays in the color realm, the color reproduction of a 3CCD camera is almost always better. Again, since you are dishing out so-called professional advice, you should know this. It's not a personal attack, I'm just statin
What He Wants... He Might Not Be Able To Afford (Score:2)
These units are intended for news crews and come with a bit of durability.
That's really where he wants to look. It's not like people don't use cameras strictly in home.
So pick up any broadcast professionals mag and peek about. Though they do tend to be fairly expensive.
Re:What He Wants... He Might Not Be Able To Afford (Score:2)
Economic analysis (Score:2)
It's got to be cheaper to simply replace the Sony every 9 months using the Best Buy warranty than it is to buy one of those pro dvcams. A typical pro level camera is around $5k and up, so you have to get 10 years of use out of the pro one to make it worthwhile at 0% interest
Re:Economic analysis (Score:2)
The upside to raping best buy's program is that you'll get 100% of the camera's purchase price to spend on a new camera when they declare it unf
Forget about getting a rugged DV camera. (Score:2, Interesting)
Solution? Buy a mid-priced one at Best Buy, along with the extended warranty. If you're likely to need it (and you likely will), the extended warranty is a bargain. My first two Sony MiniDV cams both failed just after a year. The Best Buy extended warranty will cover it for four years.
Yes, you will have to let them repair it if it breaks, which can take a couple of weeks. But the $200 you spend on the extended warranty is less t
Cue Homer Simpson (Score:2)
(that episode where he becomes very smart... until he decides to go back to normal)
Take a look at some midrange digital cameras that have good video clip & audio recording. Oftentimes you can even do some minor editing and trimming on the spot.
I've pretty much stopped taking my miniDV camcorder anywhere since I got a new digicam. My Canon Powershot A85 camera can record quite a bit of low res video and audio on a 60x 1GB CF. It can only do 640x480 at 15fps for ab
Re:Forget about getting a rugged DV camera. (Score:2)
sorry to break it to you (Score:3, Insightful)
Consumer products are designed to break so that you'll buy a new version a short time down the road. That's why all consumer products should be considered an expendable good. Surprise! Most new companies come out with a new product version at least anually - perfect timing for designed obsolecense!
If you want something that's rugged and repairable, you're going to have to purchase a device that costs enough to make repairing it economical for both you and the company - in other words, something that's very expensive and 'industrial'. It won't be easy to use.
Cheapest, best route is probably to keep slugging it out for the 'cheap' consumer brand stuff and hope for the best.
For what it's worth, both my brother and I have Canon Z40s. My brother has used his constantly for the last two years (well, quite often - a couple hours a week, I guess). It's a little body worn, but it still works fine. Mine works fine as well, and I like their product over what the others offer. *shrug*
Re:sorry to break it to you (Score:2)
1-Studios don't need sturdy
2-Live don't need pristine, ju
Re:sorry to break it to you (Score:2)
Studios most assuredly need sturdy where it counts - in the internal parts of the device. This often also means the outside needs to be sturdy, as they get used a lot.
I don't care what it is, but something which is used consistently every day of the year for several hours (such as a news camera) is going to have to be very, very sturdy. Some of these cameras cost as much as a good lawyer's annual earnings. A "cheap" professional digital camera can c
Cheap, Cheap, Cheap (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Cheap, Cheap, Cheap (Score:2)
Re:Cheap, Cheap, Cheap (Score:2)
Re:Cheap, Cheap, Cheap (Score:2)
That's great until it fails in the middle of a shoot. Don't forget the part of the question that involved them spending weeks on the road.
Re:Cheap, Cheap, Cheap (Score:2)
Re:Cheap, Cheap, Cheap (Score:2)
I'm holding out for a $500 MPG4 camcorder with a 6GB microdrive in it and decent quality image. I bet it's not far away, since Panasonic already does that with SD, though I don't know what the video quality is or the versatility of the lens (IE 2
Re:Cheap, Cheap, Cheap (Score:2)
Try this.. I am using it for my own documentary... (Score:5, Interesting)
I am embarking on my two year bike journey/documentary. You can see it at worldcyclist.com [worldcyclist.com]
What I am using is a 3 CCD chip (A MUST!) Panasonic PV-GS120 (the 150 has replaced it). It has a few drawbacks, no deal breakers though. It has a cinema-like mode, not true 16:9 shooting. It does have a stereo mike input which, with 2 Radio Shack lavaliere mono mikes and a stereo y connector, works pretty good for interview subjects.
Before buying any Mini-DV get the manual from Amazon, you can download them usually.
Before you know it people will beat down a path to your door if you have a good idea. I have a proven Emmy winning director assembling mine, the book already optioned and a sponsorship from Sugoi apparel
I also smoked for 20 years, am slightly overweight and am 39 years old. No one is more surprised than me.
Re:Try this.. I am using it for my own documentary (Score:2)
Dude, everyone's surprised when they hit 39.
Re:Try this.. I am using it for my own documentary (Score:2)
Great advice on d/ling the manual first, btw.
beaters (Score:2)
underwater camera? (Score:2, Informative)
sony vx-2100 (Score:2, Informative)
"Would you like to buy the extended warranty?" (Score:2)
Well, since we're talking about it... (Score:2)
I've been looking for one with RCA or SVideo in, but can't find one anywhere. I didn't want to have to buy a eyeTV or some separate deal for something I expect to use once. Any suggestions?
Re:Well, since we're talking about it... (Score:2)
Re:Well, since we're talking about it... (Score:2)
rugged vs. replaceable? (Score:2)
Be careful of the lubricants (Score:2)
There is one caution about the MiniDV marketplace and that is lubricants used on the tapes themselves. Different manufacturers use different ones. The MiniDV tape standard doesn't say what the lube on the tape is, so there are two popular kinds in common u
Ask on DVInfo (Score:3, Informative)
My Rugged JVC (Score:2)
Back in January of 2000, I made an semi-impulse buy of a discontinued model from the JVC CyberCam line. My wife was in the hospital about to have our second child, and I ran out to the camera shop to buy a digital video camera. It was a pretty good camera and I liked the DV format and all that -- and it served us well for the birth and beyond.
Then one day I put it on top of our Exp
Samsung! (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Samsung! (Score:2)
Yeah, but the bit about being lazy was already implied when you said you were an employee of a large electronics retailer (^_^)
Laptop, mic, and bullet cam (Score:2)
Club racers often use bullet (or lipstick) cameras for recording different angles of in-car video. They are cheap, relatively tough, and can go in (or on) places where camcorders can't go.
Those cameras take all kinds of abuse from racers -- loading and unloading along with the vibration and jarring of a practice session, qualifying, and a race. Most folks seem to use DV cameras for input but if you like, you can record directly to a laptop computer (providing that you have the proper inputs and a suffic
Counter-intuitive reply. (Score:2)
The $3-700 consumer camera is designed to be a wall wart that you, the consumer, sit on the shelf, and use to film the occasional family event, and if it breaks, oh well, it's broke. It's cheap enough to get a new one, and likely, much "better".
In order to get a durable camera, you have to get what's considered a "pro-sumer" cam
Re:Counter-intuitive reply. (Score:2)
By your arguments, I'd suggest just buying cheap ones and letting them break. Buy a second as backup, if you want. At $300 each, it'll take a looong time to break even on that GL1. In fact, as time goes on, price comes down, and features go up - a digital camcorder that fits the basic requirements will probably be in the $150 range in a couple of years. At an attrition rate of one per year, it could take a decade before he'd have layed out what a GL1 would cost.
steve
Re:Counter-intuitive reply. (Score:2)
Or, what if you drop it when you're getting out of the truck on the way to the performance, on a saturday night? The more expensive camera allows you the peace of mind that you'll be able to dust it off and keep using it, as opposed to wondering where all these little bits and pieces on the asphalt go.
I'd be willing to advocate having a good camera as the primary, and a cheaper one as a backu
Buy it from Costco (Score:2, Informative)
Helmet cam (Score:2)
number of very durable helmet cams and store your video
compressed on your laptop. Kind of kills two birds as I'm
guessing you ultimately take your DV and make it available
on web or by cd anyways.
Re:Helmet cam (Score:2)
Re:Helmet cam (Score:2)
anything, for instance a tripod just like a regular camcorder.
This guy didn't indicate if they are recording from one
fixed location or if somebody is constantly changing the
recording position. If they need mobility, then yes you are
right they would be better with another alternative.
Sony prosumer camcorders are probably it. (Score:2, Interesting)
They are favorites among skateboard video makers, documentarians (), and professional videographers in general. I have heard people talk about having dropped, kicked, a
Mower Cam (Score:2)
Cheap-ass Sony (Score:2)
Digital solid-state camera (Score:3, Interesting)
The Olympus Stylus Verve looks grate. It's water resistant, cheat, very nice overall. It's movie mode have a 320x200 pixels resolution (half a mini-DV camera) and can store 21 minutes of movies in a 512MB card...
If you need better resolution camera, you can get the Sony Cyber-shot® DSC-S40 that has a 640x480 movie mode with 30fps, but it's not water resistant...
Any digital camera will last far longer than a camera that have moving parts...
Make one like this (Score:2)
Unite all 4 with duck tape.
Go filming.
If the USB camera does 640x480 at 30fps or more, you have something that generally produces better pictures than a much more expensive and fragile digital camera, and you cant record movies on the same media too many times.
Oh and you'll need lots of perl scripts.
Re:DV Deck (Score:2)
Re:DV Deck (Score:2)
Re:DV Deck (Score:2)
Re:DV Deck (Score:2)
Re:Any reason to keep using DV TAPE? (Score:2)
Mpeg4 isn't.
Tape is still cheaper (Score:2)
The tape just keeps pulling us back in ... (Score:2)
Annoying as hell an unelegant. Yet, cheap and outrageously scalable. Magnetic tape has been with us for quite some time. And at this rate, it's unlikely to go away anytime soon.
Why would you want to replace cheap tape with expensive flash for an application that must be laid down and read linearly. Random access isn't a concern until editing. At that point, it's on your hard drive at home.
The idea of replacing tape for video with hard drives is a dream. Perhaps when 2.5" are up to 1.5 terrabyte capa
Re:Who's the boss ? (Score:2, Funny)