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Impact of Daylight Savings Time Changes? 572

Posted by Zonk from the lots-of-work dept.
jason718 writes "With the pending changes to U.S. Daylight Savings Time, what impact will those changes have to existing systems and their applications? Are some operating systems more open than others with regard to the configuration of Daylight Savings Time start and end dates, or will we need yet another update or patch to modify the internal calendar?"
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Impact of Daylight Savings Time Changes? More

Impact of Daylight Savings Time Changes?

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  • Daylight Saving = Duping 11pm (Score:5, Informative)

    by fembots ( 753724 ) on Sunday July 24, 2005 @04:38PM (#13151388) Homepage
    With over 800 comments [slashdot.org], I thought that's enough to get an idea of its impact and suggestions to deal with it.

  • Who cares? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by mnemonic_ ( 164550 )
    Are some operating systems more open than others with regard to the configuration of Daylight Savings Time start and end dates, or will we need yet another update or patch to modify the internal calendar?

    Wouldn't a patch for this sort of thing require all of 10 seconds to make?

    • Re:Who cares? (Score:5, Funny)

      by sgant ( 178166 ) on Sunday July 24, 2005 @04:45PM (#13151443) Homepage Journal
      But banks and financial institutions have all had their software built for daylight savings time ending sooner! Now everything will be out of whack as the banks and computers and the electronic grid system will think it's an hour later than it is!

      Planes will fall out of the sky! The banks will collapse! LIFE AS WE KNOW IT WILL CEASE! We need to panic people! PANIC! Start hiring floors and floors of programmers to change all the code out there.

      Ok, maybe not...
    • "Wouldn't a patch for this sort of thing require all of 10 seconds to make?"

      Aren't there a hell of a lot of machines to patch?

      • Re:Who cares? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by standards ( 461431 ) on Sunday July 24, 2005 @05:12PM (#13151604)
        I have about 54 Unix servers to care and feed.

        I estimate that we will perform zero patches to handle these specific rule changes.

        The switch already happens - it'll just happen on different days. And if you recall, these changes have happened before - so it isn't really unexpected for those who have been in the business a while.

        The Y2K contracting folks will have you jumping off your seats, but for everyone who runs these systems: no big deal.

        I'm sure some home users will be caught off guard, but then again most desktop users have their clock set to the wrong timezone.

    • Re:Who cares? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by tverbeek ( 457094 ) on Sunday July 24, 2005 @05:04PM (#13151557) Homepage
      Wouldn't a patch for this sort of thing require all of 10 seconds to make?

      And about 10 years to get fully deployed. There are machines still running unpatched copies of Windows 98 and IE 5.0 out there.

      I hope they give us several years' notice, so that we can all go out and buy New-DST-compliant VCRs along with our HDTV-compliant TVs.

    • I have several of these, including a wrist-watch, and all of them are normally zero maintenance. As if you didn't know, these beasties listen for a NIST radio broadcast signal and synchronize themselves automatically.

      Well, the radio signal does not include DST information; that's a "client-side" feature of the clock itself. Most clocks allow you to configure which time zone offset you wish, as well as to specify whether you want the clock to observe DST during the appropriate time of the year.

      And the

  • Impact of DST changes (Score:3, Funny)

    by Joey Patterson ( 547891 ) on Sunday July 24, 2005 @04:39PM (#13151394)
    The sleep patterns of Slashdotters will be messed up... Oh, wait a minute...

  • I expect it to... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 24, 2005 @04:39PM (#13151395)
    Cause more dupes [slashdot.org].

  • No daylight savings time here (Score:5, Funny)

    by TWX ( 665546 ) on Sunday July 24, 2005 @04:40PM (#13151408)
    I live in Arizona, you insensitive clod!
    • don't flaunt your energy-wasting ways, you insensitive clod!

    • Re:No daylight savings time here (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Golias ( 176380 ) on Sunday July 24, 2005 @05:06PM (#13151567)
      Arizona's position on Daylight Saving Time is enlightened, and we should all follow their shining example.

      If you want to go to work an hour earlier, just go to work an hour earlier. All this goddamn "pretend it's an hour later than it really is" bullshit is completely whacked. People who think DST is a good idea are like people who think setting their alarm clocks ten minutes later will improve the likelihood that they will get to work on time.

      Noon should always be when the sun is directly over my time-zone. If you want to adjust the business day according to available sunlight, it makes more sense to: 1. Change the start time instead of the clocks. 2. Do it gradually, the way available light changes gradually. That way you don't fuck up people's sleep cycles either.

      I wonder if the health problems (and sick days off work) due to disrupted sleep patterns has actually cost our society more than the energy saved by the whole DST concept. Seems like something which should have been studied by now...

    • Re:No daylight savings time here (Score:5, Interesting)

      by CrazyTalk ( 662055 ) on Sunday July 24, 2005 @05:09PM (#13151589)
      Could be worse - you could live in Indiana, a small state which effectively has THREE time zones (Central with DST near Chicago, and Eastern time with or without DST depending on where you are in the state.
      • Thank goodness Indiana is going to implement DST statewide next year, though - I work for a Swedish company in Indianapolis, and you wouldn't believe how many teleconferences get screwed up because the rest of the world changed their clocks and Indiana didn't...

        • Of course, the countries of the world that do change their clocks don't change their clocks at the same time. The EU starts DST on the last Sunday of March [webexhibits.org] whereas we (currently) start ours on the first Sunday of April. Currently, we both end ours on the last Sunday of October.

          If we're going to change how we handle DST, I'd recommend that we match the EU. I know that the idea of following the EU's lead is anathema to many of us, but hey, it's a small sacrifice and shows that we're willing to make compromi

          • Of course, the countries of the world that do change their clocks don't change their clocks at the same time.

            It gets even better - In Australia, some states don't observe DST at all, and of those that do, not all of them start and end it on the same dates (Yes Tasmania, I'm looking at you). Making things more interesting is that the Northern Territory and South Australia are only 30 minutes different from their eastern neighbors (but only SA observes DST), so for part of the year Adelaide is 30 minutes
  • I'm not sure why this is comming across the headlines again but, I'll say it again.

    Embeded devices. Clocks, DVD players, etc. Anything thats not network accessable that can be patched - is going to be screwed.
    • They'll just think it's the wrong time. Makes no difference to DVD players. Important for clocks, but these can be set manually twice a year.

      Few devices adjust for DST. To my knowledge, only computers do this. And that can be turned off and done manually if need be.

      • Re:Didn't we just argue over this? (Score:5, Interesting)

        by LurkerXXX ( 667952 ) on Sunday July 24, 2005 @05:02PM (#13151548)
        Few devices adjust for DST. To my knowledge, only computers do this.

        Let me just look around my room here... My TV does. So does my VCR. There are lots of things out there besides 'computers' that adjust for DST. Certainly my TV and VCR aren't 'patchable' to changes to when the time changes occur.

      • Few devices adjust for DST. To my knowledge, only computers do this. And that can be turned off and done manually if need be.

        The two atomic clocks I just bought do. Fortunately, I live in California. If I lived in Eastern time, these things would be doorstops (since you can't set them forward an hour because there's no U.S. time zone over there).

        Any way you cut it, though, I'm really pissed. I just spent all that money so I wouldn't have to set my (&@#^$&@ clocks forward and back manually,

        • Relax -- your investment in atomic clocks (really radio-controlled) is safe :) They get DST from the master clock already.

          All of the radio-controlled or "atomic" clocks work on the same idea -- they receive a time signal from a low-frequency transmitter (60kHz in the US). The device will typically set an internal quartz clock from the received time code. The time reference signal is strongest at night, so it's typical for these clocks to set themselves at 2 or 3 am (local time). Some newer designs will

  • More trouble (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mfloy ( 899187 ) on Sunday July 24, 2005 @04:40PM (#13151411) Homepage
    This seems like it is going to be a great deal of trouble. Although most software will be fairly easily patched, it still seems like a hastle. People will inevitably forget to patch, and different will be handling time differently.

    • Re:More trouble (Score:3, Insightful)

      by The_Wilschon ( 782534 )
      The people who don't get it right will simply change their clocks, and then however long later when their clocks change automatically, they'll scratch their heads, and change them again. Just like people handled daylight savings time before computers, only with more changes, and some of them more puzzling.

      Of course, that only accounts for systems that have people sitting at them and who happen to glance at the clock. I predict that there will be some servers that are off by an hour for a while, but that
      • I predict that there will be some servers that are off by an hour for a while, but that it will not cause many problems.

        I though most servers ran on GMT, not local time. Mine do, anyway.

    • Re:More trouble (Score:3, Funny)

      by Seumas ( 6865 ) *
      It will destroy civilization. The foretold second coming of your lord and savior will be imminent. Mankind is doomed. Invest in underground bunkers and stockpile cans of food and MREs!

  • I'm feeling this already (Score:5, Funny)

    by fixer007 ( 851350 ) on Sunday July 24, 2005 @04:41PM (#13151416)
    Did someone turn the clock back to the discussion we already had on this issue?

  • Who elects these guys? (Score:3)

    by pHatidic ( 163975 ) on Sunday July 24, 2005 @04:44PM (#13151432)
    "Kids across the nation will soon rejoice," said Upton, because they'll have another hour of daylight trick-or-treating.

    Right...

    • Upton's an idiot, elected by the not-very-perceptive people of SW Michigan. My boyfriend was one of his perpetually-disappionted constituents.

      As a kid, I was always relieved by the time change in October. Is there anything lamer than daylight trick-or-treating?

    • This guy is a plain bozo ... or has never had little kids ... the best part of trick-or-treating is the magic of wandering the neighborhood looking at all the jack-o-lanterns and other decorations - what's the point of doing it in the daylight?

      We travelled the world with my (now older) kids last year .... halloween found us in India ... pumpkins were in short supply ... in the end we carved watermelons, they work great if you leave a little red flesh

  • FRIST PSOT!!!!!!11!!! (Score:5, Funny)

    by EEBaum ( 520514 ) on Sunday July 24, 2005 @04:45PM (#13151447) Homepage
    Unfortunately, due to inconsistent implementation of Daylight Savings, an erroneous timestamp will cause the system to place this post significantly further down the list. Rest assured, though, that this post was made an hour before the timestamp shows, and was, therefore, first.

  • Yup. (Score:5, Funny)

    by keesh ( 202812 ) on Sunday July 24, 2005 @04:47PM (#13151455) Homepage
    You'll need an update to /usr/share/zoneinfo/ . Expect the next Debian release in late 2012 to support this.
    • Luckily, most people that use Debian are "unstable", which should have a fix in the pipeline, er, fifteen minutes after the bill initially hit paper. :)
  • "The beauty of daylight-saving time is that it just makes everyone feel sunnier," said Markey.

    I smell a new viral sig.

  • Now I have to figure out how to actually set the clock in the car. Today, I just wait it out for half a year for things to sync up.

    (kidding)

  • Nothing* (Score:3, Insightful)

    by dago ( 25724 ) on Sunday July 24, 2005 @04:59PM (#13151525)
    * May vary dependig on your location, only applies outside of the USA.

  • As a Canadian... (Score:5, Informative)

    by NamShubCMX ( 595740 ) on Sunday July 24, 2005 @05:01PM (#13151537)
    It means we won't have the same time for a few weeks than our southern neighbors... and all the trouble that means...

    (Until we follow you guys)

  • DST is BS anyway.... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Chanc_Gorkon ( 94133 ) <<moc.liamg> <ta> <nokrog>> on Sunday July 24, 2005 @05:05PM (#13151560)
    I hae no idea why Congress thinks this thing will svae oil. Back when DST was invented, it was understandable. Now, we're different. Now we have people who work at any time during the span of 24 hours. We have 24 hour stores and there's more activity at night now then ever before. I bet that the existing DST does nothing to save oil now at this point. Sure, it's nice to have those extra daylight hours and what not but is it worth causing untold number of devices (regular desktops and servers will be fine, but it's the embedded stuff that is the problem now). Changing it now would not make a difference in oil usage.
    • You're right. I've read up on this a little, and when DST was first implemented (and the numbers are all over the place, so take these with a grain of salt), the savings were in the double digits, with some estimates as high as 25-30%. Today, we're not quite to 1%, for the reasons you mention as well as others.

  • Who is fooling who? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by CrazyTalk ( 662055 ) on Sunday July 24, 2005 @05:06PM (#13151564)
    This whole thing is riduculous - pretty soon we will have daylight savings time year round, which will of course then be just "time". Might as well just stay on the same time, all the time. People work flextime now anyway - and most are not farmers that need to follow the schedule of the sun. If they do, just change what time they start work each day - not change the actual clock. If they are worried about commerce, people being in synch, etc. everyone across the globe should just agree on GMT (or whatever) as the standard time and go from there.

    The absurdity of fooling yourself by changing the clocks (not really unlike those that set their alarm clock fast so they are never late) reminds me of a former coworker, who came in later to work every day. One day he came in as we were leaving for lunch. Soon he came in on a Friday as we were all leaving for happy hour. Eventually he "lapped" himself and started coming in so late it was early the next morning, and eventually he came in at a normal start time of 8:00 or so. Of course, the trend continued and he just started coming in later again.

    • his cycle was just slightly longer than yours. i did this in college. with proper planning and a few hours of adjustment each week you can hit M/W/F classes on a 30 or 36 hour cycle, and you wouldnt believe how refreshing 12 hours of sleep every "night" can be.
    • I once had a neighbor who was always late with the rent. He blaimed his job, which payed every other Wednesday (as apposed to every other Friday).

      "And sometimes Wednesday is after the first of the month"
    • Who? Whom? It might help your career if you know the difference.
      http://www.ku.edu/~edit/whom.html [ku.edu]
      Who refers to a subject, whom refers to an object.
      You should have said: "Who is fooling whom?"
      I offer this tip merely to help you advance your career, not to be a national socialist.

  • Think of the Children... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by PetoskeyGuy ( 648788 ) on Sunday July 24, 2005 @05:09PM (#13151587)
    Upton noted that the extension means daylight-saving time will continue through Halloween, adding to safety. "Kids across the nation will soon rejoice," said Upton, because they'll have another hour of daylight trick-or-treating.

    This is the silliest reason I've ever heard of. Energy consumption I can understand if the facts support that it will really make a difference.

    Here in northern Michigan for our family at least we always wait for it to get dark before we go out. Maybe it's like having snow for Christmas, but it's doesn't seem like Halloween would be the same when you can see just how cheap all the costumes and decorations really are.

    Also how would this affect livestock? How do they know what time it is? If daylight savings time is so great, why revert at all why not just move it forward the whole year and let Indiana print their own TV Guides. :)

  • Boycott! (Score:3, Funny)

    by wviperw ( 706068 ) on Sunday July 24, 2005 @05:09PM (#13151588) Homepage Journal
    Maybe we should start boycotting all /. dupes in an effort to bring attention to this pressing matter.

    Err... wait.
  • The last time daylight savings policy was changed nationwide, I was at UC Berkeley. Instead of merely changing the relatively-hard coded savings times, they converted to using the zoneinfo library where they can specify how daylight savings occurs, and which years use which rules for each timezone (so given a UTC time in 1974, the library can cough up the equivalent PST time that was correct for that year). OS X and Linux both appear to use the same library.

  • Windows and Linux aren't the issue. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by SirGeek ( 120712 ) <sirgeek-slashdot.mrsucko@org> on Sunday July 24, 2005 @05:18PM (#13151638) Homepage
    Specialized software like the power grid uses will be the issue. Most of this software will need large amounts of regression testing to ensure that the proper 23 and 25 hour days are handled.

    Many of the packages are expecting the 1st Saturday/Sunday in April to have 23 hours and the last Saturday/Sunday in October to have 25 hours.

    Do you really want the power grid to put into production a patch that hasn't been tested for many months ? ( Or do you want blackouts, or the cost to quadruple ? )

    • Specialized software like the power grid uses will be the issue. Most of this software will need large amounts of regression testing to ensure that the proper 23 and 25 hour days are handled. Many of the packages are expecting the 1st Saturday/Sunday in April to have 23 hours and the last Saturday/Sunday in October to have 25 hours. Do you really want the power grid to put into production a patch that hasn't been tested for many months ? ( Or do you want blackouts, or the cost to quadruple ? )

      Why would
  • I have a nifty solar watch that sets itself based on the the broadcast signals from the atomic clock in Boulder, CO. It automatically adjusted itself when DST started, and presumably would adjust when it was supposed to end. now it's going to be all fucked up? Wonderful. Fuck you Legislative branch.

  • For the love of God, people... (Score:5, Informative)

    by HEMI426 ( 715714 ) on Sunday July 24, 2005 @05:26PM (#13151678) Homepage
    It's Daylight Saving Time, not Daylight Savings Time.
  • As long the operating system can handle both local time and Coordinated Universal Time, it should not be any problem. If the program saves every time in UTC, and when displayed, convert it to local time, the user should not need to be worried. As a European citizen we all have DST, and we manage easly, so why shouldn't those in the US manage too?
  • http://www.standardtime.com/proposal.shtml [standardtime.com] Check out the proposed replacement for daylight saving time, which also shrinks the number of timezones in the continental US from 4 to 2. It seems to make a lot more sense overall than what we have now...
  • It just means that I'll have a few more weeks each year of being woken up early by people calling from the mainland. Joy.

  • My gremlin! (Score:3, Funny)

    by cluening ( 6626 ) on Sunday July 24, 2005 @05:38PM (#13151757) Homepage
    But how will I find an update for my gremlin? Will I have to be careful not to feed him after 11 for a few weeks? It's all so confusing!
  • What if we just went ahead 30min and just stuck with it and never change the time again.

  • This could be good (Score:3, Funny)

    by imuffin ( 196159 ) on Sunday July 24, 2005 @08:04PM (#13152560)
    This could be good for our energy situation 'cuz that extra hour of sun each day will let us produce more corn, which we can turn into ethanol.

    --
    watch funny commercials [tubespot.com]

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