Pay vs. Happiness 766
itri writes "A co-worker recently sent me and article about job burnout. Although it's a year old, the points seemed to resonate well with me. The nutshell of the article is that job burnout is caused by lack of the sense of accomplishment, working for a narcissistic boss, and a conflict between the employers and employee's values. Is it really better working for a company that cares about your satisfaction? Are there any companies like that and (more importantly) are they hiring?"
Its a matter of perspective (Score:5, Interesting)
With respect to pay vs. happiness, its a continuum is it not? There are those that would sell their souls to make the monthly payment on their Mercedes. I personally find that repugnant as it goes against my punk DIY ethos, but to each their own. Some folks simply find the job as a means for money to do other things with their life while others enjoy what they do for a living. I personally like to surround myself with people smarter than I am, have a passion for what they do, and treat them well to keep them around. That way, everybody is happy and things get done.
Incidently, I have three positions I am hiring for:
1) Board certified neurologist willing to relocate.
2) Board certified cardiologist willing to relocate.
You never know, but there are MDs that patrol Slashdot on occasion, so, why not?
3) Most importantly for this forum: A programmer. Can you program for OS X? Have Cocoa experience? Do you know IDL from RSI? If you answer yes to all three of the above questions, I have a job for you. I have my own stuff to keep me busy and happy so I won't be breathing down your neck. You even get to work from home or the lab, it's your choice, but if you are in the lab, you can have access to an incredibly extensive and diverse shared iTunes library and crank all you want. You can also have all the flexibility you want with the hours, I just want the code done within a reasonable amount of time. This is a contract position and you will find me most accommodating to work with.
If the meetings I have with the VCs next week go well, I might be hiring programmers with scientific robotics experience. Stay tuned to the Slashdot journal which gets updates from my blog.
Re:Its a matter of perspective (Score:5, Funny)
Lots of tunes and all the crank I want? Sign me up!
w
Re:Its a matter of perspective (Score:3, Funny)
It's Utah - the drug of choice is probably meth.
Re:Its a matter of perspective (Score:3, Insightful)
For me, I don't want or expect, the employer to stive to make me happy. I want an employer who understands what they do, why they do it,
Re:Its a matter of perspective (Score:5, Funny)
Good thing you're not in the IT industry...
- "So, you're a neurologist?"
- "Well, sorta. I play 'Operation' online all the time and I'm really good. I'm also halfway through the Wikipedia article on neurons. So... do I get the position?"
Re:Its a matter of perspective (Score:4, Funny)
re: willing to relocate (Score:3, Funny)
Dude - relocate to _Utah_?! You gotta be kidding me...is there hazard pay included?
(joke!) [sorta]
What's that old saying? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Its a matter of perspective (Score:5, Insightful)
I had a bad job for a while (It involved high temperatures and getting shot at) and the only thing that I was upset about was not seeing my wife for a year.
I would put up with a lot of cr#p at work for more money- Why? I have a wife and a daughter, and another kid on the way. I have a house payment, 2 car payments and retirement in 40 years to worry about.
I would shovel sh&t all day if it meant that my family could have a higher standard of living.
My guess is how people would answer the question "would you take better work conditions for less money" has a lot to do with age and responsibilities. If I didn't have 2 (soon to be 3) other human beings depending on me, I would be much more ammenable towards taking a pay cut for better work conditions.
If you hate your job, you have a couple choices- You can look for a better job, or you can change your outlook. Here in Ohio, tech jobs aren't easlily available- I make a good living, but I am grateful to be employed. There are a ton of people out there with 100K and more degrees who are under and unemployed.
Life isn't perfect- being an adult is hard.
Re:Its a matter of perspective (Score:5, Insightful)
You can give your family soooo much more than a McMansion and two shiny cars in the driveway. Take them for a walk, teach your kids to throw the ball, play tennis, whatever... In time they'll come to appreciate it much more than sterilized existence in a suburban McHouse. I promise you, I guarantee you they'll appreciate the time with you much more than having marble countertops in the bathroom.
The American society is driven by greed to the point of obsession. The change has to come from within. Be a part of the solution, not a part of the problem.
Re:Its a matter of perspective (Score:5, Interesting)
Some people can be happy with just a big paycheck and extra letters after their name but mostly they are the minority.
Re:Its a matter of perspective (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Its a matter of perspective (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Its a matter of perspective (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Its a matter of perspective (Score:5, Insightful)
This is very true. When I started engineering school, all freshmen had to take some orientation lectures to learn about the profession that is engineering, etc. After going over some starting salaries for engineers, the dean who was lecturing said in closing, "But, no matter what, knowing what you'll make after graduation is not enough to get you through it. I promise you that. If you're here for solely the money, you will not make it. You need to be here because you enjoy it."
Re:Its a matter of perspective (Score:4, Interesting)
To build on your story, my freshmen physics class started the first semester with around 85 students in it, almost all engineering majors. We pretty quickly started joking about how this class must be designed to weed out the students who shouldn't be engineers, but we didn't think the administration was actually that clever. At the end of the semester, only about 70 students showed up for the final. By the end of the second semester, there were less than 60 left. In retrospect, I still don't think the administration was consciously trying to cull those not oriented towards nerdiness (I did enough extracurricular stuff interacting with them to learn that they genuinely are not that clever), but the nature of the material either killed their intellectual idealism or their grades, probably both, and the rolls of the business, communications, and other "I don't know what I want to do with life" majors started swelling.
Re:Its a matter of perspective (Score:3, Interesting)
Sur
Re:Its a matter of perspective (Score:5, Insightful)
What if you put yourself through a number of years of school so that you can do porsche club racing. It just happens to be an expensive hobby. I don't agree that you can dismiss the integration of money and passion so easily. Not everybody wants to make a lot of money so they can swing their dick around. Some people want to have certain experiences that require significant amounts of money.
What if you like to travel? What if you like sailing? What if you like giving money to charity?
Re:Its a matter of perspective (Score:4, Insightful)
Some people want large salaries and live extravagant lifestyles. Some don't. I don't think either is necessarily better. I do think that some people think that having a lot of money and possessions will make them happy and then find out that isn't the case once they have them.
Maybe I'm just in the minority, but giving my children financial independence is not high on my list of priorities. Such children would probably grow up feeling entitled and not do anything worthwhile with their lives. I'd much rather they work for what they want and know that they earned it themselves. Call me crazy, but I think that's a good thing.
Re:Its a matter of perspective (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not JUST the younger generation though. My sister-in-law STRONGLY feels that it's a parent's reponsibility to maximize their childrens inheritance, and vocally enough that her children are fully aware of it, and now expect it.
Me? I'm just the opposite. All a parent SHOULD do is make sure that their children have the education and capability to acheive their OWN financial independance. Anything the parents do beyond that is a "bonus".
Now maybe the child, with his education and drive to work hard, decides to go into a lower paying field to help people, such as becomming a teacher... Then that "bonus" allows them to do so without sacraficing their own future. But if the kid screws around, drops out of school, smokes a lot of pot or whatever, then that child get's NOTHING and deserves NOTHING.
Re:Its a matter of perspective (Score:4, Funny)
Aw, come on! Paris Hilton's father is sooo proud of her. Don't you wish you had a daughter like that?
Re:Its a matter of perspective (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Its a matter of perspective (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Its a matter of perspective (Score:4, Interesting)
from: http://www.saigon.com/~anson/ebud/jk8p/jk8p_01.ht
Re:Rich person retires, film at 11 (Score:3, Insightful)
People like you always lump all lawyers in together, until its your ass in the Defendants chair.
Re:Its a matter of perspective (Score:4, Informative)
I think you're mixing your references.
A census taker once tried to test me. I ate his liver with some fava beans and a nice chianti. - Hannibal Lecter
Re:I think its the opposite. High pay = house slav (Score:3, Insightful)
You'd be shocked to find out how many CEO's feel they are the slave. Boards, investors, clients, vendors, family, etc. There is no top of the hill, unless you're prepared for a negative cash flow.
The good jobs will be shipped overseas while all the crappy jobs that suck like service jobs, these will stay
The good jobs, like standing on a production line 10 hours a day doing the same thing over and over and over a
Re:I think its the opposite. High pay = house slav (Score:3, Informative)
The only way to not be a slave is to buy your way out, that is save up enough money that you can live off the interest. How much you need to save depends on what lifestyle you want to have. But there are a number of people that have decided to cash everything in, turn to a minimalist life, and survive off the land & interest from sold assets.
Re:Its a matter of perspective (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't have kids, I can't afford them. I can't afford a house to live in that can accomodate kids, I can't afford to bring them up properly. I don't want to be a benefit scrounger either. Having children is for people richer than me, just something I'll have to do without.
Re:Its a matter of perspective (Score:5, Funny)
Someone give this man a job.
L
Re:Its a matter of perspective (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Its a matter of perspective (Score:5, Informative)
He's got a point there. I too worked in a factory, and it sucked. I understand that it's hard work and lame pay, but I worked my butt off, moved up the ladder, and now I'm the production manager. I have an office, and it's a decent-paying white collar job.
An acquantiance of mine asked me for a job. I offered him one in the factory. He was instanly dismissive, despite the fact he has NO education, and no work record to incdicate that he would last more than the first paycheck. He complained that he just "needs someone to give him a sweet job". He was less than pleased when I told him that you have to earn those.
I'm not implying anthing negative about the gp, but people don't do things for you. That's the "harsh realistic" truth.
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Its a matter of perspective (Score:3, Insightful)
Would a job in retail or hospitality be a better temporary job?
You can use a computer as well which is a qualification for a data entry position.
You find a better job exactly the same way you found your current job, LOOK. I don't know the job situation in -insertLocation- but I'd be willing to bet that if you spread your contact details around every coffe shop, and retail outlet in range you could probably find anothe
Re:Its a matter of perspective (Score:5, Insightful)
Anyway, I'm a college graduate, and I'll give you some advice from the Career development centers and State Job agencies I've dealt with. Not saying they work, but might be worth a try.
The basic idea is twofold. 1) pick something you want to do more than factory work. Generalize. Maybe you want to be in management, maybe you want to be in IT, maybe you want to be a chef.
Once you've picked what you want to do - lie. Not really, but get damned close.
Say you want to get into management. First, talk about how you are reliable - you come into work every day, you meet quotas, you've suggested improvements in processes on the factory floor.
Second, talk about your other skills - you think you don't have any, but really, you do. Talk about your understanding of office applications - you can obviously use a PC well enough to get online and post to slashdot. You can spin that into using Word, and IE and internet apps.
Then, come up with a plan to get additional skills. Lots can be done online for free, more can be done at seminars and your local employeement office.
With your ability to POST ON SLASHDOT, you can likely leverage that skillset to get into an office - likely doing clerical work.
Anyway, none of this is easy, you do have to work. You have to be willing to stretch the truth quite a bit, and be willing to learn new things - fast!
Many skills are non-obvious, heck, just working for a few years in a factory ought to put you in a position to try and jump to foreman or the like - maybe in a different company though. Always look for openings one step up from where you are in local competitiors.
Re:Nice Try... (Score:5, Insightful)
Many programming jobs out there are basically for monkeys. Very little decision making, just a lot of coding.
A lot of us on the other hand get involved with the business aspect of what we do. The 'why's, the 'how's...all of that. When the program manager or programmer is part of the decision making team, it becomes a very skilled and valuable position.
And by the time you reach that level, you don't care about the language you use, the editor you use, the platform, or anything else. You just use whatever will work for the project.
Channel Your Inner Wally (Score:3, Funny)
Burnout. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Burnout. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Burnout. (Score:3, Interesting)
"Well, if money can't buy happiness, then I guess I'll have to rent it."
Disturbingly enough, there's a point in there somewhere. Bought friends, blingbling, pleasures *cough* only last as long as you can keep paying for them. It is in bad times you see who will really stick up for you.
Re:Burnout. (Score:5, Insightful)
1. Is it liquid cash available to you, debt free?
2. Do you have any debt burdens that will reduce your income in the future?
I believe having debt is a key element in job burn out, as it is a key element that scares people into thinking they need their current job.
Even saving just 10% of your gross income should reduce your stress levels a thousand-fold. And give your wife even more reasons to have sex with you
Re:Burnout. (Score:5, Funny)
See wife in previous post
Re:Burnout. (Score:4, Insightful)
But it's not everything.
I think the point of the article and many of the posts here is that we've been taught a "work hard, earn a lot, spend a lot" ethic, and that clearly doesn't work for everyone. Just about everyone needs to work in order to pay their bills, but if I had the choice between a new car if I worked 2 extra hours a day for a year, I'd never do it. My time is WAY to valuable to me. I certainly need my job (which I love), but more importantly, I need my own time.
OT, be wary of any woman who'll "do anything" for your money. The "your" part might not be important...
Re:Burnout. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Burnout. (Score:4, Funny)
there are a lot of women who walk the streets at night downtown who are like that.
Re:Burnout. (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes I agree money is needed, but if keeping your family happy needs lots of money, you might be spoiling them. As for having money to have financial security in helping to raise a family, that would be the only reason why I would stay in a job I hate while I look for something else.
Re:Burnout. (Score:5, Insightful)
I'll tell you who cares... my wife. She cares a lot about how much money I make. That's one reason she has sex with me. Money makes her feel comfortable and secure. So comfortable that she'll do anything to keep me around... and I mean anything. And, I like that.
So what you're saying is that your wife doesn't love you, but you make her feel comfortable and secure so she'll do anything to keep you around? And do you know poor people have sex too? Quite a bit more than rich people, I hear that's been going on for many many years. It has some thing to do with two people enjoying sex, coming together, liking each other, thinking the other person is attractive or whatever, and somehow they end up having sex. Money doesn't usually enter it unless the person is shallow and just looking for money, then it becomes important.
The parent was trying to say that if you can't enjoy your money, it's not worth having, obviously you have time to do things you want to do (like have sex with your wife, or whatever else you might do.) And your friend used his money to buy cigarettes and use them to bribe people. His point was that if you spend all your time working, then you'll have no time to enjoy the money you've earned.
Re:Burnout. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Burnout. (Score:5, Insightful)
Pleasure is a short run thing and is often materialistic. Hapiness is priceless.
Re:Burnout. (Score:5, Insightful)
I sure as hope my (future) family isn't as caring about each other as yours. Pray to God that you don't become disabled, sick or afflicted with some serious crippling disease, because your whole ``loving family'' sure as hell won't be there, unless there is a will involved...
Burn out at work is not always work related! (Score:4, Insightful)
With so many people out of work, it seems almost like biting the hand that feeds you to complain about your work conditions and expect your employer to care. Your employer's role is to provide work for you. Your job is to do that work. The employer should "care" in order to make you the most efficient you can be, but it is not their job to make sure you don't have other life ills that may cause you to take on more than you can handle. All my employees who have burned out in the past were replaced by people who accepted more pressure, more time constraints, and more deadlines without burning out. Those who burned out with me had burned out in the past and continue to burn out to this day. There are many reasons why they've burned out, and few of them had anything to do with the job.
Job burnout has more to do with the lack of appreciation and reward an employee receives for his or her efforts than an increased work load. NO. Job burnout has more to do with the fact that the employee sacrifices himself for a crappy job, why? Maybe because he's in terrible debt! Get your finances in order, and you can walk away from ANY bad job. Never tell me you NEED your job because of financial struggle. Maybe his girlfriend is a manic depressive freak who constantly pulls him away from his other responsibilities. Maybe he's got a habit that he can't kick, or he's got some baggage that makes him want to succeed no matter what. You made your bed, sleep in it.
Those suffering from job burnout feel no sense of accomplishment from and no control over their work lives. So walk away. Start your own company. SAVE. The Chinese are saving up to 40% of their income. The Americans are now saving 1%, 30% of all mortgages lately are interest-only. Why are you stressed: job or real life?
Today to get ahead and save for a reasonable retirement, workers often must hop from company to company to get a promotion. Ahhh! The average employee puts almost 15% of his income away in Social Security that he knows he will never see! How about if he put 15% of his income into his own house, savings account, vacation, or whatever? How much happier would he be? Do NOT say that employers are responsible for YOUR retirement. What are we teaching our next generation? That is it someone else's responsibility to take care of us in our old age.
Everyone is expendable, thanks to many employers' short-term, economic goals. I've run 7 businesses in the 15 years I've been in business. ALL of them had long-term goals, but I also realized that a LOT of my employees would be short term as they learned from me and found someone willing to pay the more. The wonderful free market allows people to do this. Those I invested the most in I had the most reason to pay better and give better fringe benefits to. Those who left because someone was willing to pay more than me found themselves in a better position. Those that complained I wasn't paying enough were not worth more to me, and not worth more to anyone else either it seemed.
The job conflicted with my values. I was mentally and physically exhausted and suffered from chronic stomach problems. Oh, I didn't realize this guy was forced to keep this job. Did his employer put a gun to his head? Did he have absolutely no other options to get a job? Did he really LIKE the pain it caused him?
Not dealing with a burned-out employee can undermine your organization's health and lead to a burnout epidemic. In the free market this is called "bankruptcy" and rarely has to do with employee's health. When all your employees are getting burned out, it is likely that the business was failing in many other areas.
It is very important to realize that there are MANY reasons why people burn out in work, in relationships, in friendships, in life in general. To blame employers for this VERY complex situation is ridiculous, and I believe t
On "blaming the employer" .... (Score:3, Insightful)
In a relatively "good" job market, sure - there's little to no excuse for someone to keep a "crappy job" that's making them physically ill, etc. But at least in my field (computers and I.T.), the overall market has simply NOT been very "healthy" at all ever since around 2001. I'm not sure I really see any signs of it "recovering" either.
I've been out of work for over 6 months now, and it's not even that often I can find an opening to se
Re:On "blaming the employer" .... (Score:5, Insightful)
Yet how often were you trying to keep up with the Joneses? A $60k a year job should eastily support a family of 4 if you start planning early. I'm 31 and want a kid badly but I can't do it until I'm worth about double of my current value.
IT is dying, you're right. Horse-shoers disappeared, too. IT is a commodity today. I'd recommend moving possibily, or considering starting a business, but both are hard.
I _hate_ that so many mistakes people make are societal. Go to school. Spend 28% of your gross income on a mortgage. Buy a big new car and big new TV. Eat out. Drink $7 martinis. Go on expensive vacations. Have a $50,000 wedding.
Life takes planning, saving, and caution. We used to know this as a society but now its all debt, debt, debt.
16 year olds, listen and learn:
1. Until you're 25, save every penny possible.
2. Never rent or lease.
3. Get one credit card for gas, insurance and groceries. Pay 100% monthly.
4. Never get a college loan.
5. Never buy new cars or clothes.
6. Socialize at private parties with friends who live like you.
7. Work your first jobs at small companies. Trade good pay/benefits for actual positive, marketable experience.
8. Buy a trailer or condo for cash.
9. Marry once you own your family home, debt free. Watch your girlfriend for a dark side. Stability in spending habits and emotions is key.
Not sure we're much alike at all, then.... (Score:4, Interesting)
Also, by the mere fact that I do have a kid, almost *everything* changes. For starters, there are a number of jobs I've had to skip over applying for because working in rotating shifts was one of their requirements. (How can you find someone who will take care of a 3 year old for you when you're alternating working mornings, days, and late nights every month or two?) In fact, even "overtime" is extremely troublesome for me, since I have to pick my kid up from daycare no later than 6PM each day. I don't have the option of just "agreeing to work late" with no advance notice, if something comes up. And many of today's employers simply expect that. That's why they're looking to hire people fresh out of college, who don't have a family yet to "get in the way".
I always followed the majority of your listed "points for 16 year olds to learn from" - but a few of them just aren't realistic. For example, I always knew renting was a bad deal - but when I first moved out of my parents' house, I ended up renting an apartment with a roommate. At that point in time, I didn't have any credit history built up yet, nor did I have money for a downpayment on a house. But it was still time to move out (or just become a leech off of my parents - which I don't believe in doing either). When I got the opportunity, I did buy a small house (for well below market value, no less), and pay less on my mortgage each month than some people pay on their car loans. Waiting until a home is fully paid off to get married is ridiculous adivce, IMHO. Marriage should happen whenever 2 people in love with each other feel it's the right step to take. It really shouldn't be governed by how much property someone has paid off. Assuming a healty, normal relationship - both partners should simply be committed to the job of trying to get through life together. If part of that means both people doing their part to keep payments current on a house, so what?
Your point #7, by the way, is very questionable advice in my opinion. That's exactly what I did, and I feel quite certain it's one of the biggest mistakes I made! When you work for small businesses, you don't end up with any recognizable/respectable names of employers to put on your resume, nor do you gain experience working in many scenarios that are only available to people in a very large workplace. Hiring managers see big company names on a resume, and feel more "secure" in a decision to hire you. There's an assumption that a large business has the resources to do more complete background checks and so forth; If you were good enough to get and keep a job with one of them for a length of time, you're probably good enough for the next position too. When you work for small places, it looks more suspicious - like perhaps the business owners were just personal friends who hired you as more of a favor?
Re:Burn out at work is not always work related! (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah, because everyone grows up in great school districts, is able to go to a great college without racking up student loans, is able to get a great job in this wonderful job market we have, and has benefits that cover them if they get injured and have to spend 10's of thousands of dollars on medical bills.
Obligatory for Slashdot: I won't leave out those that have bullshit litigation brought against them and ha
Re:Burn out at work is not always work related! (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm 31. I can live stress-free on $10 per hour. But I like toys so I work harder. When I get close to feeling stressed, I cut back on work, which means cuts back on toys. But if you buy toys on credit, expect there to be no easy way to cut back on the stress that will likely follow.
Re:Burn out at work is not always work related! (Score:3, Interesting)
In fact, I'm reconsidering trailer living because of the housing bubble. I would probably save $20,000/year, and get almost $200,000 freed in over-inflated equity.
Don't knock it. Trailer > Apartment IMHO.
Re:Burn out at work is not always work related! (Score:3, Insightful)
http://www.garynorth.com/public/93.cfm [garynorth.com]
http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north358.html [lewrockwell.com]
Re:Burn out at work is not always work related! (Score:3, Insightful)
While I may not be the typical example, I:
* Have been working since I was a freshman in HS (now a Junior in College)
* Work a full load in the the Physics Department
* Spend almost all of my "free time" either doing homework or working
* Buy equipment that is meant to last so I won't have to buy a replacement in the near future
* B
Let Steve explain! (Score:5, Funny)
Maslows Hierarchy of Needs (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Maslows Hierarchy of Needs (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Maslows Hierarchy of Needs (Score:4, Interesting)
From a graduate paper I wrote about burnout, I will state that what I remember indicates that burnout is a result of feelings of inefficacy, and inability to change the current situation. Thus, from an organizational behavior point of view, its simply the state where motivation to work approaches (but never reaches) zero. Note that motivation is a directed behavior, not an attitude. Certainly there is a set of emotions and feelings associated very strongly with that behavior, but motivation is most accurately described as a behavior (specifically the allocation of time and energy toward a specific task).
Burnout is awful. It is real. Employers can, and should*, do things to prevent it. Those who suffer from burnout should be given access to resources and activities that will relieve that burnout.
*This is what most employers get wrong. Leaving aside such fuzziness as "good corporate citizenship" and similar ideas, burned out employees cost money. They are inefficient, and the chances are that their replacements will burn out as well as costing money and time to train properly. Hiring new employees is often as expensive or more expensive as reviving and helping your current ones. I won't make an ethical argument here, although one exists, and shouldn't be ignored, because I know that the managers want a financial/business related reason to do things. This is utility analysis (something I am becoming more interested in).
Love what you do (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course you can love what you do and still burnout due to bad leadership, bad environments, crappy salary, etc. But when you already love what you do you know exactly what you want and you know what to shoot for. There are many people out there who don't even know what they want to do.
So the trick is just to find a good place to do what you really love. Everything else falls into place after that. The world is a big place. Unless your specialty is the study of the mating habits of the black-striped vampire burrowing ferret that only lives in a remote region of Mongolia, you usually have choices about jobs.
Re:Love what you do (Score:3, Interesting)
There's ample reason to take these meaningless jobs. You call them meaningless, soul-crushing and degrading. If you've been a prostitute or similiar for some years, then I'd understand your take on this. But a janitorial position (or heck, even McDonal
"Yes, but", and "Yes, and" (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes, but:
Yes, but - a company that cares about your satisfaction is necessary, but not sufficient. You're partially responsible for your own satisfaction. The company can only provide you an environment in which your work is meaningful, and with bosses who aren't asshats. Some companies fail to suck, but if you keep that "I show up, I hide for 8 hours a day, I get nothing done, and they still pay me" mentality, you're not going to enjoy it any more (or any less) than working at your last job.
Yes, and:
Yes, and - they do exist. And they're often hiring. They're everywhere, but they're usually small companies, and you wouldn't know about them unless you knew people already working there.
So, what to do:
Network. In other words, do the same thing you ought to be doing every night, Pinky. Ask your friends who's worth signing up with as part of your plan to try to take over the world.
Nope- no companies hiring that can afford to care (Score:5, Interesting)
In other words, between the Clintonista Democrats and the Reganites and Bushies, we've signed too many free trade agreements for employers to actually be able to compete *and* care about their employees. So the second gets left in the dust because the federal government can't be bothered with the duties of the common defense and providing for the general welfare.
Re:The word is "promote" (Score:3, Insightful)
The key word being "general" there- but yes, you're right. They have not promoted the general welfare (if anything, they've promoted the general poverty for specific welfare) and you're completely right that it's promoted, not provided.
But the general welfare is not provided by the federal government, it is provided by the citizens in the form of commercial activity.
Which has been largely prevented by
Re:Nope- no companies hiring that can afford to ca (Score:3, Informative)
That's a bit of a simplistic analysis of any massively complex stastistic. All the countries have their own methods of reporting, classification, etc...
For instance, I can see three countries (using 1994 data) on page 6 of this document: http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/8/51/2080270.pdf [oecd.org] which exceeded the USA in the category of percentage of workers working more than 45 hours per week; Australia, Japan, and the United Kingdom. This is of OECD countr
40 - average workweek (Score:5, Insightful)
1. Be at work 10 minutes before time
2. Leave on time or up to 5 minutes after.
3. Don't do overtimes unless it's happening at most once a week and it's paid.
4. Have your own strong principles and be professional, do what you are paid for, but keep in mind rule number 2.
5. When a 'funny' new idea/feature/concept is about to be discussed and possibly implemented, don't go nuts over it. Stay calm, state your view, sit down and shut up. The last part is important because regardless of the undesirability of the idea, if your boss wants it to be implemented, you'll have no choice anyway. Instead of being stressed out, refer to rule 2 and 6.
6. Once work hours ends, forget everything until the next day regardless of the pressure. Work isn't your personal life.
7. Remember that people treat you the way you've allowed them to do.
If you still don't agree with me, do read:
workweek [wikipedia.org]
Average work week in manufactoring [preservenet.com]
Keep your sanity (Score:5, Insightful)
Do your job, be professional, avoid getting into that other stuff.
I enjoy my job, it's a good job. I take pride in my work, I do a good job.
I leave on time, and leave work at the office, generally.
I rarely take work home, and I try not to travel on weekends. I'm fair to the company and they're (so far) fair to me. It helps I've got a reasonable boss who believes in that balance results in better long term performance. Many other supervisors I've seen are less balanced in his approach, their people work more, but don't seem to be any more successful, and their turnover is higher.
Makes you think.
Re:Keep your sanity (Score:3, Funny)
Why then do I get an image of you polishing a rifle when I read that?
In contrast to the article, my company told me to stop working long hours regularly because they were afraid I'd burn out. But I was happier when I was working longer hours! I got more done and felt less guilty about the occasional web surfing.
Re:40 - average workweek (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:40 - average workweek (Score:3, Insightful)
My last job wasn't quite as good, but I still got along with the people I worked with and had a t
Look for small companies. (Score:3, Insightful)
Burnout/hardwork (Score:5, Interesting)
I work government, and while I do like my job, there is no real point in my putting in insane hours. Because in government, everyone has to be treated equally. I work about 45 hours a week, busy all day (and reading slashdot!). If we do raises, everyone gets a 2% raise, or x amount a year. Everyone. Even the people that sit around all day surfing the web. There is no reward for me implementing a system wide VOIP system in 1 month from brainstorm to going live. There is no incentive for me to put in tons of work, except for my own satisfaction, and resume building.
Answer to your question (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, yes, and just to add it another time for good measure YES!
Job satisfaction is a huge one on my priority list, it should be on your employers list, but most of the time it won't be. It's a shame that it works this way, but that's life I guess. I am self motivated normally because what I do the people who I work for can see the benefits of what I am trying to do. I also have a very good working relationship with them so if I need money for budgets or someone out of my way to do things, it's all very easy to organise. This means when I have to work two or three weeks straight and pull 12 - 14 hours days for that period I know that taking time off afterwards to see family / friends won't even be questioned. Anything else that I need during that time will also be taken care of without question too.
It all comes down to the person / people who you report to, some people just aren't adept at keeping people happy by doing all those little things that keep staff. Most of the time, it's usually other members who care more and make your boss do things. I know that I bought a lot of alcohol (Bottles of wine, champagne) pens and other small gifts for staff. I managed to get one of our staff members sent away to a resort with one of her friends for a weekend away after finishing a project.
A lot of the time I find it's all about the relationship you have with the people that you report to, if you can see them as friends and they respect you for what you are doing, then all problems seem to fade away. If you are consistently not seeing eye-to-eye on things, I would definitely move somewhere else.
Just to let you know as well, from having managed teams before, and people that have been unhappy and going to leave, the company policy before was just to give them a pay rise and that would make them stay. Only problem with that is none of the issues about WHY that person is unhappy have been resolved. In two or three months they will want to leave again. Usually it comes down to job appreciation and giving them challenges to keep them thinking. If you do this I have seen people work for a lot less because they actually enjoy their work. When people are happy it's very very easy to correlate between their performance at work as well.
Employers like this do exist, but it's just a case of finding them. I would find out what makes you happy and ask questions about this in your interviews to see if the company that you could be working for is really what you are after.
The Scientific way (Score:3, Funny)
Left the US, and loving it! (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Left the US, and loving it! (Score:3, Interesting)
What I do not like about living in the US is how everything "seems" to be centered around materialism; You are what you make. You are your reputation. You are the car you drive. You are the suit you wear. In short. You are not "you".
The stress level is also extremely high. At least, generally, those around me have that problem. Which is puzzling to me. These folks seem to think it was PUT on them by oth
Why should you.. or anyone care?: Slave Mentality. (Score:5, Interesting)
If the nation's GDP goes up an extra 1%, do you get a dividend check for your share of the difference?
If the nation's GDP goes up 3% will you suddenly become more handsome, grow a larger penis overnight, and get a 20 point IQ boost?
Unless you're getting an equal and/or fair share of the increase in GDP, then crowing about how "GDP has gone up!!!11one" is simply a slave mentality... you're somehow happy that your masters who control the economy made some more profit, even though you'll get none of the fruits of that increase.
If you've got a 35-hour workweek, 6 weeks of paid vacation every year, free healthcare, free schooling through Bachelor's-level for your kids, and a guaranteed old-age pension.... would you give it all up so you could live in a country that had a slightly higher GDP????
Are you insane? What on god's green earth effect will a higher GDP have on your own personal life experience??
Re:Why should you.. or anyone care?: Slave Mentali (Score:3, Funny)
What country is that?
Re:Why should you.. or anyone care?: Slave Mentali (Score:3)
Sounds like France. The healthcare in many European countires is crap, though. When you have free office visits with a doctor the offices over swamped with hypocondriacs so a regular visit tak
Re:Why should you.. or anyone care?: Slave Mentali (Score:4, Interesting)
I think the continental European countries do take the Socialist thing a bit far, but good working conditions aren't as bad for the economy as some Americans seem to think.
Re:Why should you.. or anyone care?: Slave Mentali (Score:5, Informative)
37-hour week, though many people put quite a bit more than that in their jobs.
5 weeks of paid holiday. (And a few "extras")
Free schooling through masters level (M.Sc.). You have to get good grades to get into popular studies like humanities, medicine etc. though. Students receive a government grant (not to be repaid) of about $600/mo.
Guaranteed old age pension. I'd recommend topping it off with your own savings though.
OTOH, there's a 180% (one hundred and eighty!) tax on cars, VAT is 25% and if you hit upper middle class income you'll pay about two thirds of your last earned krone in income tax..
Not to mention that even with a well-paying job, the guy flipping burgers isn't that far behind you on the scale. This is of course reflected in the price of your fries.
The grass is always greenest over the septic tank (Score:3, Interesting)
That said, perhaps you need to step back and ponder your situation a bit.
Is it really the job that you don't like?
Could it be that you just aren't good at it?
Do your coworkers not like you?
Do they have a good reason?
Why do you think it's the company's job to make you happy?
These and other questions sound silly, but are crucialy important. You may like your job just fine, but be unhappy with your personal life. You may not mesh with others in your office. Maybe you would be happier starting your own business. Don't automatically assume that all your problems are the fault of someone else. The only consistant feature of every unsatisfying relationship that you have ever had is you. Something to ponder.
Weigh your values carefully (Score:5, Interesting)
So here I am in CA, doing tech support for the courthouse (we let our consulting company slowly fold as my biz partner headed off to law school and I sought a bit more stability). I get to ride my bike to work every day (about 10 miles each), have great weather, good people all around, the ocean here, the mtns, etc. However, just recently I was offered the chance to do the wifi stuff again with a 50% raise. I pondered it for about a week and realized it wasn't a lifestyle I wanted. 50% wasn't enough to travel all the time, have instability, won't get to ride all the time, etc. Paying the bills would be awesome, but it's just not worth the sacrifice. Apply this to all your job decisions and man...it's interesting what you can come up with.
Yea...well, sorta... (Score:3, Interesting)
Education and Govt both pay poorly when compared to their private sector jobs...which really means they arent as demanding, but because the IT departments tend to be smaller, you get a good opportunity to try out new technlogies...the biggest drawback from both of these are low pay and yearly audits...
For some, they would rather make $40k/yr and be happy and fairly secure than make $80k/yr with a job they hate...
To get a job that you wont eventually hate you honestly have to be willing to accept lower pay or lack of freedom, or both...
After a long career, I now find myself... Happy! (Score:5, Informative)
Started mid-'80s with minor tech jobs and tech/sales jobs for crappy, now out-of-business retailers (Egghead, ComputerTown, etc.). Got hired by a customer to be their admin, spent 6 utterly frantic, insane years there. I worked at all hours of the day and night, dealt with issues constantly, but I was well-paid, respected, and treated well. I loved it. Went to another job as IT manager for an insurance company, paid a lot more money. Loved it and the people, until we were sucked in by a much bigger insurance company. Their strategic plan for us involved firing half the employees and turning it into a branch office. Lost my job there as one of the first overboard (I was management, after all) in mid-'03 after 5+ years - the first 3 solving problems and running operations, the last two having conference calls with my new boss in Minnesota.
After that thoroughly disheartening experience with The System, I decided to give being my own boss a shot. I hung out my shingle in the spring of '04, and managed to eke out a living for the first year. Now, I wouldn't say my success is assured and I'm not making the kind of bank I used to, but I'm really busy, making a good living, and I love my job. My customers are actually grateful for my work, and they trust me to help steer them in the right directions. The experience I had is a real asset for them. And even if this doesn't work out in the long term, I've learned a lot about myself, learned a lot about business, and gotten the chance to actually use all the tech skills I've piled up over the years instead of rotting from the neck up as a PHB.
The downside? Some weeks I can't find enough hours in the week to do everything, some weeks I hear crickets chirping when I sit in my office. And today was supposed to be a family day to go to a museum with my wife and son, but instead I had to finish a proposal in the morning, and then get called in to a customer about a half-hour from here to fix a server whose power supply had failed (installed before my time and soon to be replaced). But you know - it wasn't too bad. Because the proposal is for a nice bit of business, and that didn't take too long. And the other customer knew that I was giving up my personal time to help and they genuinely appreciated it. And appreciation is something that is often sorely lacking in the salaried, 9-5 world. Crises like that don't happen often, and it just happened to be today.
So basically I'm saying that if you want to be happy, consider working for yourself. It's a much better life (at least for me), and it's nice to at least have some measure of control again. The worst case is you'll learn something in failing. The best case is you get to really be in charge of your career.
In a nutshell, it's an easy fix. (Score:3, Insightful)
The problem with most jobs is that (and it's true for me) I *know* I can do a better job than the person above me. And it's not the work itself -- I have ideas to make things work smoother, cheaper, more efficient, etc. Most companies fear change -- they do what they can to keep everything successful and change nothing for sake of their employees.
Why do you think Google is the 'job' that EVERYBODY wants (myself included)? Their environment is key to their success. They give their employees free food, let them wear whatever the fuck they want, and pay them well. The idea of companies getting more for less is proven false time and time again -- you will just have more people staying under the radar and doing the bare minimum, as the article suggests.
Here's a few tips from personal experience, that I can pass along to corporations:
-- Don't have "End of the Month" meetings congratulating how great the company's 'numbers' were when 99% of the people in attendance gain NOTHING from it, and the 1% who do are the ones trying to "motivate" you to get better numbers for next month.
-- Don't keep on incompetents, people with bad tempers, and just lazy fucking bastards just because they seem to be on a 'tenure' track and have a 'history' with your company. If you are detrimental to the employees in any way, get the fuck out.
-- Offer a Christmas bonus, ever year. I don't care if I got a $10 gift certificate to Walmart, it's the THOUGHT (and yes folks, your parents taught you right) that counts here. To say after a year's work, in a time of holiday and giving, and that you KNOW the managers are getting HUGE bonuses, learn to give a little back to your employees. You have no idea how valuable that $10 may be.
-- Offer advancement, even if it's fake. When I came in as "Janitor" (though I didn't but regardless), and I did a decent job and I earned my whopping (can you feel the sarcasm?) 4% raise, change my title too. I would love to be Janitor Level II -- head of vomit patrol for lavatories 1-4. Granted it was probably my job before but the fact I got a title change makes me feel just a little better.
-- DO NOT EXPECT YOUR EMPLOYEES TO ABANDON THEIR FAMILIES/LIVES TO WORK FOR YOUR SHITTY COMPANY. I cannot stress this enough. I work a 50 hour work week. Unless somebody is about to die, do not call me on the weekend, do not ask me to finish up a project by staying only a half hour more, and learn that "results" are often measured in QUALITY and not QUANTITY of hours. If you stress that you want the best job that your employee can do, but NOT at the expense of their personal lives, then your company will benefit. Because employees will make sure to get their projects done in a timely fashion because they have ALL of the aforementioned 'tips' to look forward to, coming in to another day at work.
-- And lastly, do not believe that YOU, as Management, are worthy of any praise. You are scum because you make boatloads more money than me for a LOT less work. Granted *some* of you worked to get there and some of you did not. As an employee, I don't give a flying fuck and I will always hold that against you. That's not negotiable. Your job as management is to be despised by all employees and looked at with scorn. So don't get mad about it -- just offer what you can to say that at the end of the day, with your fistfulls of cash, you are missing one dollar to give your employees an infinitely better workplace.
But we won't ever stop saying how useless and stupid you are because let's face it dude... you are a fat dumb bastard and we all aspire to be in your position as well.
The secret to enjoying your job... (Score:3, Insightful)
Most large companies consider employees to be completely interchangeable and replaceable like light bulbs.
That's not to say that all small companies are good, though. Many tech startups have a business plan that requires making their employees work long hours and weekends until they burn out. Avoid those like the plauge. They always tell prospective employees that they will reap big rewards on stock options, and in fact often insist that the employee should accept lower salary and worse benefits in exchange for the options. Don't buy it. Options *might* pay off, but it's a long shot. If they try to sucker you into such a plan, ask them to give you the salary and benefits you want and forget the options. They'll almost never do that, which tells you that their real opinion on the value of their own options is that they are worthless; obviously you shouldn't value them any more highly.
I've had the good fortune to have several enjoyable jobs at small companies, including my current job. At a few of them I did eventually make modest gains on stock options, but not enough for a down payment on a house. Well, maybe a down payment on a house somewhere other than in Silicon Valley.
it can come true-here's my story... (Score:4, Interesting)
briefly, I started as a graphic designer and production artist in 1990, first working for a manufacturer, then going on my own for a couple of years--my computer skills have been valuable because I learned the technical aspects of print production, rather than just making pretty layouts--in the mid 90s, I started learning web design and multimedia (Director) --wanting to be my own boss, I started a small design biz and went on my own--during this time, I had my own clients, as well as doing freelance work inside many top ad and marketing agencies in Minneapolis. then, I went to work for a homegrown ad agency, who was actually pretty good to work for, with lots of perks, but also having to put up with typical client BS.
by 2000 i'd had enough, and moved to New York City, to get an advanced degree, learning multimedia art + design, and to see how i'd match up with the best. I was freelancing while going to school, which went fine at first, and then slowly dissipated with the dotcom bubble burst, finally falling on 9-11, which I saw from my classroom window. the next year and a half were spent trying to work out of this--I actually got a job at a remaining dot-com, but the founder split with the last 600k, and I was out of a job a week after I was hired...at this point, my rent wasn't being paid, much less my bills or student loans--also, I'd exhausted any credit I had, or even friends or parents to help me pay my bills--i was on my own, with no income and few prospects (freelance rates dropped through the floor at this time, and the competition became ever more fierce). bankruptcy was imminent...
I still kept my work studio, though, because I found I *needed* to keep working--the silver lining is that with commercial work nonexistent, I could work on my own projects--I distinctly remember waking up to go to the studio being flat broke, knowing that the financial world was closing in on me. strangely, I felt free and ok with this, becausee even though I wasn't being paid, I was going to go and work on my stuff, because that's what I do.
just when things were at their lowest, I met my future wife--she's European, and from a family of artists (and she's a geek;>--we fell in love and got married, and most of my concerns were eliminated...because my wife's father (who died when she was young) left her some money, I am able to work without having to submit to the most lucrative job--I teach interactive multimedia design and spend the rest of my time working on my own projects. Next year, I will be releasing my own creative work, (hopefully in conjunction with a major event that I am working on being a part of), while continuing to teach, and spend time with my beautiful (geek) wife...
what's the point? Surely, I got incredibly lucky, however, that luck came after I stayed true to my own self, and pursued my dream--I was willing to take less, and put in more, in order to pursue my dream, and in the end, it came back to me a thousandfold--before that, however, I gave up a steady job, where I made good money, but got very little satisfaction putting together schlock work for anybody willing to pay.
lots of people would trade places with me now, but which nobody would have done 2 1/2 years ago--I do believe that it was my willingness to stick it out to the bitter end that got me this far--that's the message that I want to send out--you *can* make your dreams come true, if you want them bad enough--they will never turn out quite like you expect in the beginning, but you can see it clearly, looking back...
corporations are like casinos--they may pay you some coin, but they'll take your heart and soul in return--I can't blame anybody who takes a corporate job to feed themselves and their families, however, it's always a tradeoff, and make no mistake, they take as much of your heart and soul as they can. In return, many of the things that you think you need are actually modern 'convenien
Software Engineer --- Marine Aviator (Score:3, Interesting)
In 2004, I left a job as a software engineer to join the Marines as a Naval Flight Officer (think Goose from Top Gun). I was making good money ($70k 1 year out of college), had flexible hours, and had a great working environment (awesome boss and several friends), but it just wasn't satifying me.
Now as a 2nd Lieutenant with 1 year of service, I make the equivalent of $42k (tax adjusted) and am loving it. The money is more than enough for everything I want & need.
The only thing I miss is how academic & intellectual everyone was back at my job in the civilian world. Don't get me wrong; the people here are smart, but it's more in terms of technical proficiency and quick thinking. Running my own programming business on the side seems to satisfy that need, though.
We all got a price (Score:4, Insightful)
There have also been a couple of jobs that fall under the "damn, I *do* get paid enough to put up with shit." In that case the pay and benefits are a bit higher than usual, so you put up with the crap in the job for as long as you can hack it.
Of course, once in a lifetime you get that one job where you get paid well, people listen to you and you can pretty much get away with murder. Hell, you might even get lucky and end up working for a first line supervisor that is not an idiot. If you are one of the very few lucky bastards in this position, STFU and try to get as much as you want out of it.
Fucking copy/paster (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Burn-out is common with Linux Admins (Score:5, Insightful)
Windows is only easy to maintain because everybody get so much practise fixing it all the time...
Re:Obligatory - Work for Yourself (Score:5, Funny)
Get in, get the job done 6 months late, get out. Get called back constantly because you did a poor job.
My apologies if you're not a building general contractor.
Re:Suck it up... (Score:4, Insightful)
I disagree completely. I'm trying to lead a really happy life right now, instead of planning to do it after 30 years of misery. In a way I've told the whole capitalist rat race to fuck off many years ago.
The idea you talk about is the whole Christian work ethic once again, with retirement as the blissful afterlife. There are other, IMHO better ways to live your life.
Re:get out of industry and into education (Score:3, Interesting)
Me? I was hired to be the "instructional tech guy". What did that mean? Well, in a nutshell nobody really knew exactly, so I could do what I wanted. I've got a reasonably clued boss who trusts me when I say "I think we need to do X", so at various times it's meant
Re:WAAAAAAAH! I'M SAD! (Score:3, Insightful)