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Why Does Everyone Hate Microsoft?

Cliff posted more than 8 years ago | from the don't-hold-back dept.

Microsoft 1540

MrSplog asks: "I'm doing a short project on Microsoft and its impact on society. A considerable part of this project has been looking into people's perceptions of Microsoft and the heavily negative bias of that perception. Since Slashdot is one of the world's forefront leaders on Microsoft hatred, I wanted to know: just why do you hate Microsoft? Please be as descriptive and as thorough as you like. Counter arguments and positive comments are also appreciated."

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I dont *hate* Microsoft..... (5, Interesting)

BWJones (18351) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249216)

Oh, I don't *hate* Microsoft. In fact, I have friends who work there and have made money off of Microsoft stock. I still use Word (although Pages is coming on strong and if I could get EndNote compatibility, I'd switch entirely) and Excel and root for the company on occasion. Where I object to Microsoft is in their shoddy products. Almost every product I've used of theirs that came out at version 1.0 has royally sucked. Their whole concept of bringing products to market is date/deadline driven rather than quality or product driven, much less consumer driven. Classic cases of abysmal products were Windows v1-3, Win-98 and ME, the Zune, Bob, that first tablets and the ultra portable systems I've previewed (error messages that were too big for the display for instance), and of course their always changing interface standards and poor security issues.

Saying all that, I actually had a pretty good Micron PC running Win 95 that was remarkably stable. Of course upgrading it to Win98 was a unmitigated disaster. Win NT was a very stable OS, that was just cryptic to use and administer. Win2000 was pretty decent, and it almost made me switch my home system from MacOS to Win200, but like most products they have simply used their monopoly status to make the right changes very late in the game if ever. How long did it take them to adopt all characters for file names?

Where I really started getting disgusted with their business was after I saw company after company run out of business due to business practices that bordered on illegal and in some cases blatantly crossed the legal line. I always tended to prefer the MacOS, but was fairly platform agnostic (using Windows, Solaris, Linux, Irix, MacOS) for whichever task needed the appropriate platform, but with the advent of OS X, I've become a strong advocate for the Macintosh platform which brings up another issue entirely.... Microsoft has for decades now used Apple as their R&D lab. It's an obvious and well known joke, but if you are familiar with OS X, just wait until you get to play with Vista. Come on now, there are some very smart folks at Microsoft, so why can't they come up with ideas and products on their own? My take on it is that it is an efficiency issue combined with a management issue with too much oversight at the early and mid stages of the game. For instance, how many programmers are there on the Windows development team? Its in the thousands for sure, perhaps tens of thousands all told. For OS X, the number of full on programmers numbers in the hundreds. Under 300 for sure last time I checked a couple of years ago. The whole Quicktime team numbers around 30-40 whereas the Microsoft Media Player team is well into the hundreds. We could go on and on here, but to answer your question, this scientist at least does not hate Microsoft. I've just watched the company for years, purchased some of their products and have found a product from another company (Apple) that meets my needs and does not get in the way of my work the way Microsoft products tend to do.

Re:I dont *hate* Microsoft..... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#17249376)

Oh, I don't *hate* Microsoft. In fact, I have friends who work there and have made money off of Microsoft stock.
Big karma hit incoming, ouch!

Re:I dont *hate* Microsoft..... (5, Insightful)

arifirefox (1031488) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249380)

one could argue Microsoft products are shoddy because they support a mind blowing number of hardware configurations. Apple's job is much easier...but do you want to be restricted in what kind of computer you want? If it was up to Apple, they would be still on slow powerpc chips but it was the competition in the PC world that finally made them see the light. And you have to thank Microsoft for at least part of that.

One could argue this only (5, Insightful)

Smeagel (682550) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249608)

if several other OS's didn't exist which run perfectly fine on tons of hardware (*BSD and Linux). And the sad part is, M$ has all the vendors producing drivers SPECIFICALLY for their operating system. All they have to do is provide a stable kernel and easy/efficient module system for these drivers, and they'd be golden -- every advantage is on their side there. This opposed to Linux and *BSD, who are still more or less reverse engineering many of their drivers.

Re:I dont *hate* Microsoft..... (5, Insightful)

Niten (201835) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249640)

If it was up to Apple, they would be still on slow powerpc chips but it was the competition in the PC world that finally made them see the light.

While we're arguing hypotheticals, I'll point out that if it were really up to Apple, IBM would have put the necessary resources into developing low-power and high-speed PowerPC chips, the lack of which being what drove Apple into the Intel transition. If there were no Microsoft, and as a result, the same level of R&D going into today's x86-derived processors were instead used to develop the PowerPC line powering Apple's presumed monopoly, then the Intel transition would not have been desirable.

You're right in that competition is a good thing; I'd be just as concerned by an Apple monopoly over the PC market as I am by the current Microsoft one. But I think the parent was saying (and I agree) that they are Microsoft's anticompetitive behaviors which earn that company such widespread disapproval.

Re:I dont *hate* Microsoft..... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#17249406)


I love being screwed over (1)

EmbeddedJanitor (597831) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249560)

I don't hate MS... I just hate what they do and the way they do it.

I was veryu pro-MS when they were the little guys trying to make computing more accessable to Joe Blow (and the big *nix companies were the bastards). But once they got to be top dog they just got very nasty.

How the hell did you write all that... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#17249616)

...in less than a minute!?

Three Words (5, Insightful)

davecarlotub (835831) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249224)

Criticism of Microsoft (4, Interesting)

tfinniga (555989) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249428)

Another useful wikipedia article is Criticism of Microsoft [wikipedia.org] .

Personally, I think most of the slimy stuff is due to business decisions. I know a lot of people that work there, and they are generally hard working, intelligent people that sincerely want to impact people's lives for the better, and see Microsoft's large market share as a way to actually make a difference. If the devs were in charge, or if they had scrupulous and competent businessmen, it would be a much different company. The fish rots from the head.

The recent change in leadership is promising, but I'm definitely in the "wait and see" camp. You know, the "buy a mac while I wait and see" camp. Hey, Disney is turning around. It could happen.

Thats a symptom (5, Insightful)

Catskul (323619) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249436)

Embrace, extend and extinguish, is only a symptom of the real issue. The real issue is that Microsoft fails to subscribe the culture that most geeks subscribe to which is simply: Technical freedom. We want to be able to do whatever we want with technology, and we dont want anyone getting in our way. Microsoft is constantly getting in the the way of technical freedom as it tries to bully its way into being important instead of innovating its way into importance... Microsoft refuses to be in a support role and wants to be the center of the technical world regardless of technical merit. That getting in the way and self centered attitude is the reason everyone *I* know hates Microsoft.

Wrong Question (2, Insightful)

Das Auge (597142) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249238)

An easier question would be "Why not?"

Wrong Question, Right Ulcer. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#17249538)

Because it hurts you, more than it hurts them.

Isn't it obvious? (0, Flamebait)

FunkeyMonk (1034108) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249242)

I hate Microsoft because I've used their products.

Re:Isn't it obvious? (2, Interesting)

Captain Splendid (673276) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249526)

I hate Microsoft because I've used their products.

That's exactly it. Apart perhaps from their Office Suite (which is still 50% shit when you throw in Publisher and Access and all that other crap), every alternative to a Microsoft product usually blows it out of the water.

There might be a few guys who really hate Microsft, but most of us are just sick of having to use their crap.

Two Main Reasons (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#17249246)

Envy and Jealousy.

Re:Two Main Reasons (1)

Ariastis (797888) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249378)

Or IE & Compatibility

Because we all hate Microsoft (-1, Troll)

TodMinuit (1026042) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249250)

Everyone hates Microsoft because everyone hates Microsoft. You're not one of us if you don't hate Microsoft, so to speak.

(Note: I do not hate Microsoft, nor am I one of you.)

Re:Because we all hate Microsoft (1)

noz (253073) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249386)

This should have been submitted to domyassignment.slashdot.org [slashdot.org] .

Everyone knows (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#17249252)

Microsoft supports Open Source...

Come on (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#17249254)

This is an obvious, obvious troll.

Re:Come on (1)

Xiroth (917768) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249296)

Uh, that's the stated purpose of the question. If the editors are prepared to have this discussion here, so be it - it's their house, so more power to them.

Yes and no. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#17249590)

It is simply reinforcing groupthink and generating ad impessions. Nothing more, nothing less. I will be shocked if this article doesn't hit 1000 comments.

Spyware (4, Insightful)

wheatwilliams (605974) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249260)

Tieing the web browser to the operating system and creating Active X controls, and then putting no security on them, ushered in the era of spyware and caused tremendous suffering for users and the tech support people scrambling to try to stamp out the spyware.

Re:Spyware (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#17249362)

So it's Microsoft's fault that people are idiots? I've used Microsoft products since early days of DOS, and have never been infected with spyware. Nor have I experienced any tremendous suffering (beyond what is expected with PC use). Just because users are idiots doesn't make it Microsoft's fault.

If people heeded any sort of warnings, then they wouldn't really have much of a problem, right?

Re:Spyware (5, Insightful)

thedbp (443047) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249476)

>Nor have I experienced any tremendous suffering (beyond what is expected with PC use)

That is the problem. Microsoft has conditioned you to expect suffering. This is unacceptable.

If you take a step back and read what you have written, you probably put forth the most compelling argument AGAINST Microsoft - that they have lowered the collective standards of computing to the point where people think its OK to get viruses and spyware and think its just 'part of using a PC.' Which, of course, it isn't, unless you happen to be using Windows.

Re:Spyware (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#17249598)

I can't complain. I spent 5 hours today with various software engineers sorting through code and conf files trying to figure out why I couldn't get a freakin' GUI to load in Linux. And these were Red Hat certified (with 15+ years experience with *nix) programmers.

If anything, I would say that using Linux has conditioned me to expect suffering. Any /.er should know the pain and suffering required to truly know how to run Linux. Gentoo anyone?

Re:Spyware (1)

theheff (894014) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249446)

You're right- we should have kept the internet text-based, right? Telnet isn't that dull...

Re:Spyware (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#17249464)

wrong. the users are at fault. Ive never had a single virus, and ive used windows since 3.1

besides, if not for the security holes, crap companies like mcafee wouldn't even exist. the holes actually allowed a new market to grow, amusingly....

Self denial. (1)

pizzach (1011925) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249276)

It's because everyone here is secretly jealous of Microsoft and it's wealth. ::clears throat:: I, on the other hand, am different.

Micro$oft SUXXORS!!!

I hate Microsoft because (2, Funny)

bsytko (851179) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249280)

I hate Microsoft because Slashdot hates Microsoft. I read Slashdot. Therefore, I hate Microsoft because I read Slashdot.

Re:I hate Microsoft because (1)

boobavon (857902) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249630)

I think you should add that you feel the same way as whatever you read. Otherwise your logic stinks.

Slashdot hates Microsoft. I read Slashdot. I believe everything I read. Therefore, I hate Microsoft because I read Slashdot.

There's no reason to hate Microsoft anymore. (5, Interesting)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249282)

Before the DOJ case we all used to wonder why they produced such poor quality software at such high prices. In fact, we all felt kinda pissed off and betrayed by this. Then the anti-trust litigation put it all into perspective. No mystery anymore, that is, so long as you have even a basic understanding of microeconomics. Monopolies produce poor quality products at high prices - that's what monopolies do. So yeah, no reason to hate Microsoft anymore, we know what they are. Of course, a number of people are still pissed at Microsoft for their abuse of their monopoly, that's fine. But all those people who are pissed off at the government for handing Microsoft this monopoly they have, well, go be pissed off at the government.

Besides which, they'll be gone in 10 years anyways. That's not a rimshot. Shit, it's not even an original thought. It's just the way things are going.

Re:There's no reason to hate Microsoft anymore. (5, Insightful)

badasscat (563442) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249432)

Monopolies produce poor quality products at high prices - that's what monopolies do. So yeah, no reason to hate Microsoft anymore, we know what they are.

Yeah, that makes about as much sense as saying "murderes leave a hell of a mess - that's what murderers do. So yeah, no reason to hate OJ Simpson anymore, we know what he is."

It must have escaped my attention when it became the case that the simple realization that a person or company has committed a crime somehow excuses it.

Microsoft is a convicted monopoly. There is no more reason to hate them required. They will always be a convicted monopolist; you don't somehow get un-convicted after a couple of years. The penalties they had to accept (at least in this country) may have been little more than a slap on the wrist... but that doesn't change what they are. And it's something they only share with a few other companies in the history of this country.

I mean, why hate Enron? Why hate the tobacco industry? Why hate any company?

When it's not just your opinion that they've hurt people, but when it's in fact been proven that they hurt people, then I'd say that's a pretty good reason.

(That doesn't mean I hate Bill Gates; I think he's done a lot of good things. But he has not surrounded himself with the most scrupulous people, and he himself has not always acted scrupulously in business.)

Re:There's no reason to hate Microsoft anymore. (1)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249564)

Microsoft is a convicted monopoly.
That doesn't even make sense. They've been convicted of monopoly abuse. It aint illegal to be a monopoly. In fact, the government hands out monopolies like pamphlets these days. And, as I said, if you wanna hate them for abusing their monopoly position, that's just fine, but don't hate them for producing poor quality software at high prices, they're just doing what monopolies do.

Re:There's no reason to hate Microsoft anymore. (2, Insightful)

Ajehals (947354) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249622)

Not intending to take anything away from your post, I would just like to say that Microsoft's monopoly position is not the problem, nor is it a legal issue (as such). Its the leveraging of that monopoly to gain market share in other markets. (also possibly the use of that monopoly to maintain their monopoly, - I'm pretty sure that's an antitrust issue).

As a developer... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#17249284)

It just seems like Microsoft does everything backwards. They have some feature for developers that looks nice and shiny, but there is just so much pain associated with using it, it just isn't worth it.

I wouldn't develop for Microsoft if they didn't have such a stranglehold on the marketplace and all my customers think it is the only option.

I have to admit (1)

arifirefox (1031488) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249290)

if it wasn't for Microsoft, we would probably still be using IBM PC's. We wouldn't have the tremendous diversity where everyone could build their own pc and it will just 'work'. Microsoft is a tough target to beat as there are still good reasons to favor some of their products.

Re:I have to admit (2, Insightful)

techentin (121099) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249584)

> if it wasn't for Microsoft, we would probably still be using IBM PC's.

That's just plain wrong. IBM opened up the architecture of the PC, so that anybody could make compatible products. Some engineers at Texas Instruments, frustrated by the shortcomings of the "nearly compatible" TI-PC, started Compaq. THAT is why we've got so much variety in the computer industry. Microsoft was just willing to sell to anybody.

Re:I have to admit (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#17249602)

And what 'works' exactly? Despite the massive level of adoption, most of Microsoft's software base is terribly designed, and often convoluted. Not to mention, their development tools, and general design paradigms, are unnecessarily proprietary.

Their influence is wholly negative (1, Insightful)

driptray (187357) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249292)

Because they use their monopoly status to crush competitors, and therefore retard growth and innovation throughout the entire software industry.

That's all.

Re:Their influence is wholly negative (1)

rlanctot (310750) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249322)

Resistance is futile. Your technology will be embraced and extended, then assimilated.

Re:Their influence is wholly negative (1)

wellingj (1030460) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249606)

retard growth
I hereby declare this the best description of Microsoft's R&D.

Paranoia (1)

shitzu (931108) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249304)

I bet its just Microsoft Public Relations Blunder Research dept. letting slashdotters do the dirty work.

i don't think people truly HATE microsoft (1)

Asshat_Nazi (946431) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249306)

btw, i ate out your grandpas ass!!!



When I think of dirty old men, I think of Ike Thomas and when I think about Ike I get a hard-on that won't quit.

Sixty years ago, I worked in what was once my Grandfather's Greenhouses. Gramps had died a year earlier and Grandma, now in her seventies had been forced to sell to the competition. I got a job with the new owners and mostly worked the range by myself. That summer, they hired a man to help me get the benches ready for the fall planting.

Ike always looked like he was three days from a shave and his whiskers were dirty white, shaded by the brim of his battered felt fedora.

He did not chew tobacco but the corners of his mouth turned down in a way that, at any moment, I expected a trickle of thin, brown juice to creep down his chin. His bushy, brown eyebrows shaded pale, gray eyes.

The old-timer extended his hand, lifted his leg like a dog about to mark a bush and let go the loudest fart I ever heard. The old fellow then winked at me, "Ike Thomas is the name and playing pecker's my game."

I thought he said, "Checkers." I was nineteen, green as grass. I said, "I was never much good at that game."

"Now me," said Ike, "I just love jumping men . . ."

"I'll bet you do."

". . . and grabbing on to their peckers," said Ike.

"I though we were talking about . . ."

"You like jumping old men's peckers?"

I shook my head.

"I reckon we'll have to remedy that." Ike lifted his right leg and let go another tremendous fart. "He said, "We best be getting to work."

That summer of 1941 was a more innocent time. I learned most of the sex I knew from those little eight pager cartoon booklets of comic-page characters going at it. Young men read them in the privacy of an outside john, played with themselves, by themselves and didn't brag about it. Sometimes, we got off with a trusted friend and helped each other out.

Under the greenhouse glass, the temperature sometimes climbed over the hundred degree mark. I had worked stripped to the waist since April and was as brown as a berry. On only his second day on the job and in the middle of August, Ike wore old fashioned overalls. Those and socks in his high-top work shoes was every stitch he wore. When he bent forward, the bib front billowed out and I could see the white curly hairs on his chest and belly.

"Me? I just love to eat pussy!" Ike licked his lips from corner to corner then sticking his tongue out far enough that the tip could touch the end of his nose. He said, A man's not a man till he knows first hand, the flavor of a lady's pussy."

"People do that?"

He winked. "Of course the taste of a hard cock ain't to be sneezed at neither. Now you answer me, yes or no. Does a man's cock taste salty or not?"

"I never . . ."

"Well, old Ike's willing to let you find out."

"No way."

"Just teasing," said Ike. "But don't give me no sass or I'll show you my ass." He winked. "Might show it to you anyway, if you was to ask."

"Why would I do that?"

"Curiosity, maybe. I'm guessing you never had a good piece of man ass."

"I'm no queer."

"Now don't be getting judgmental. Enjoying what's at hand ain't being queer. It's taking pleasure where you find it with anybody willing." Ike slipped a hand into the side slit of his overalls and I could tell he was fondling and straightening out his cock. "Now I admit I got me a hole that satisfied a few guys."

I swallowed, hard.

Ike winked. "Care to be asshole buddies?"


We worked steadily until noon. Ike drew a worn pocket watch from the bib pocket of his loose overalls and croaked, "Bean time. But first its time to reel out our limber hoses and make with the golden arches before lunch."

I followed Ike to the end of the greenhouse where he stopped at the outside wall of the potting shed. He opened his fly, fished inside, and finger-hooked a soft white penis with a pouting foreskin puckered half an inch past the hidden head.

"Yes sir," breathed Ike, "this old peter needs some draining." He exhaled a sigh as a strong, yellow stream splattered against the boards and ran down to soak into the earthen floor.

He caught me looking down at him. He winked. "Like what you're viewing, Boy?"

I looked away.

"You taking a serious interest in old Ike's pecker?"

I shook my head.

"Well you just haul out yourn and let old Ike return the compliment."

Feeling trapped and really having to go, I fumbled at my fly, turned away slightly, withdrew my penis and strained to start.

"Take your time boy. Let it all hang out. Old Ike's the first to admit that he likes looking at another man's pecker." He flicked away the last drop of urine and shook his limp penis vigorously.

I tried not to look interested.

"Yes sir, this old peepee feels so good out, I just might leave it out." He turned to give me a better view.

"What if somebody walks in?"

Ike shrugged. He looked at my strong yellow stream beating against the boards and moved a step closer. "You got a nice one,boy."

I glanced over at him. His cock was definitely larger and beginning to stick straight out. I nodded toward his crotch. "Don't you think you should put that away?"

"I got me strictly a parlor prick," said Ike. "Barely measures six inches." He grinned. "Of course it's big enough around to make a mouthful." He ran a thumb and forefinger along its length and drawing his foreskin back enough to expose the tip of the pink head. "Yersiree." He grinned, revealing nicotine stained teeth. "It sure feels good, letting the old boy breathe."

I knew I should button up and move away. I watched his fingers moving up and down the thickening column.

"You like checking out this old man's cock?"

I nodded. In spite of myself, my cock began to swell.

"Maybe we should have ourselves a little pecker pulling party." Ike slid his fingers back and forth on his expanding shaft and winked. "I may be old but I'm not against doing some little pud pulling with a friend."

I shook my head.

"Maybe I'll give my balls some air. Would you like a viewing of old Ike's hairy balls?"

I swallowed hard and moistened my dry lips.

He opened another button on his fly and pulled out his scrotum. "Good God, It feels good to set 'em free. Now let's see yours."


"Just to show you're neighborly," said Ike.

"I don't think so." I buttoned up and moved into the potting shed.

Ike followed, his cock and balls protruding from the front of his overalls. "Overlook my informality." Ike grinned. "As you can see I ain't bashful."

I nodded and took my sandwich from the brown paper bag.

"Yessir," said Ike. "I just might have to have myself an old fashioned peter pulling all by my lonesome. He unhooked a shoulder strap and let his overalls drop around his ankles.

I took a bite of my sandwich but my eyes remained on Ike.

"Yessiree," said Ike, "I got a good one if I do say so myself. Gets nearly as hard as when I was eighteen. You know why?"

I shook my head.

"Cause I keep exercising him. When I was younger I was pulling on it three time a day. Still like to do him every day I can."

"Some say you'll go blind if you do that too much."

"Bull-loney!" Don't you believe that shit. I been pulling my pud for close to fifty years and I didn't start till I was fifteen."

I laughed.

"You laughing at my little peter, boy?"

"Your hat." I pointed to the soiled, brown fedora cocked on his head. That and his overalls draped about his ankles were his only items of apparel. In between was a chest full of gray curly hair, two hairy legs. Smack between them stood an erect, pale white cock with a tip of foreskin still hiding the head.

"I am one hairy S.O.B.," said Ike.

"I laughed at you wearing nothing but a hat."

"Covers up my bald spot," said Ike. "I got more hair on my ass than I got on my head. Want to see?"

"Your head?"

"No, Boy, my hairy ass and around my tight, brown asshole." He turned, reached back with both hands and parted his ass cheeks to reveal the small, puckered opening. "There it is, Boy, the entrance lots of good feelings. Tell me, Boy, how would you like to put it up old Ike's ass?"

"I don't think so."

"That'd be the best damned piece you ever got."

"We shouldn't be talking like this."

"C'mon now, confess, don't this make your cock perk up a little bit?"

"I reckon," I confessed.

"You ever seen an old man's hard cock before," asked Ike.

"My grandpa's when I was twelve or thirteen."

"How'd that come about?"

He was out in the barn and didn't know I was around. He dropped his pants. It was real big he did things to it. He saw me and he turned around real fast but I saw it."

"What did your grandpa do?"

"He said I shouldn't be watching him doing that. He said something like grandma wouldn't give him some,' that morning and that I should get out of there and leave a poor man in peace to do what he had to do."

"Did you want to join him."

"I might have if he'd asked. He didn't."

"I like showing off my cock," said Ike. "A hard-on is something I always been proud of. A hard-on proves a man's a man. Makes me feel like a man that can do things." He looked up at me and winked. "You getting a hard-on from all this talk, son?"

I nodded and looked away.

"Then maybe you should pull it out and show old Ike what you got."

"We shouldn't."

"Hey. A man's not a man till he jacked off with a buddy."

I wanted to but I was as nervous as hell.

Ike grinned and fingered his pecker. "C'mon, Boy, between friends, a little cock showing is perfectly fine. Lets see what you got in the cock and balls department."

In spite of my reluctance, I felt the stirring in my crotch. I had curiosity that needed satisfying. It had been a long, long time since I had walked in on my grandfather .

"C'mon let's see it all."

I shook my head.

"You can join the party anytime, said Ike. "Just drop your pants and pump away."

I had the urge. There was a tingling in my crotch. My cock was definitely willing and I had a terrible need to adjust myself down there. But my timidity and the strangeness of it all held me back.

Hope you don't mind if I play out this hand." Ike grinned. "It feels like I got a winner."

I stared at his gnarled hand sliding up and down that pale, white column and I could not look away. I wet my lips and shook my head.

Old Ike's about to spout a geyser." Ike breathed harder as he winked. "Now if I just had a long finger up my ass. You interested, boy?"

I shook my head.

The first, translucent, white glob crested the top of his cock and and arced to the dirt floor. Ike held his cock at the base with thumb and forefinger and tightened noticeably with each throb of ejaculation until he was finished.

I could not believe any man could do what he had done in front of another human being.

Ike sighed with pleasure and licked his fingers. "A man ain't a man till he's tasted his own juices."

He squatted, turned on the faucet and picked up the connected hose. He directed the water between his legs and on to his still dripping prick and milked the few remaining drops of white, sticky stuff into the puddle forming at his feet. "Cool water sure feels good on a cock that just shot its wad," said Ike.


"Cock-tale telling time," said Old Ike. It was the next day and he rubbed the front of his dirty,worn overalls where his bulge made the fly expand as his fingers smoothed the denim around the outline of his expanding cock.

I wasn't sure what he had in mind but I knew it wasn't something my straight-laced Grandma would approve of.

"Don't you like taking your cock out and jacking it?" Ike licked his lips.

I shook my head in denial.

"Sure you do. A young man in his prime has got to be pulling his pud."

I stared at his calloused hand moving over the growing bulge at his crotch.

"Like I said," continued Ike, "I got me barely six inches when he's standing up." He winked at me. "How much you got, son?"

"Almost seven inches . . ." I stuttered. "Last time I measured."

"And I'm betting it feels real good with your fist wrapped around it."

"I don't do . . ."

"Everybody does it." He scratched his balls and said,"I'll show you mine if you show me yours." Then, looking me in the eye, he lifted his leg like a dog at a tree and let out a long, noisy fart.

Denying that I jacked off, I said, "I saw yours yesterday."

"A man has got to take out his pecker every once in a while." He winked and his fingers played with a button on his fly. Care to join me today?"

"I don't think so."

"What's the matter, boy? You ashamed of what's hanging 'tween your skinny legs?"

"It's not for showing off."

"That would be so with a crowd of strangers but with a friend, in a friendly showdown, where's the harm?

"It shouldn't be shown to other people. My Grandma said that a long time ago when I went to the bathroom against a tree when I was seven.

"There's nothing like a joint pulling among friends to seal a friendship," said Ike.

I don't think so." I felt very much, ill at ease.

"Then what the fuck is it for," demanded the old man. "A good man shares his cock with his friends. How old are you boy?"

"Nineteen almost twenty."

You ever fucked a woman?"


"Ever fucked a man?"

"Of course not.

"Son, you ain't never lived till you've fired your load up a man's tight ass."

"I didn't know men did that to each other."

"Men shove it up men's asses men all the time. They just don't talk about it like they do pussy."

"You've done that?"

"I admit this old pecker's been up a few manholes. More than a few hard cocks have shagged this old ass over the years." He shook his head, wistfully, "I still have a hankering for a hard one up the old dirt chute."

"I think that would hurt."

"First time, it usually does," agreed Ike. He took a bite from his sandwich.

I looked at my watch. Ten minutes of our lunch hour had already passed.

"We got time for a quickie," said Ike. "There's no one around to say, stop, if were enjoying ourselves."

He unhooked the slide off the button of one shoulder-strap, pushed the bib of his overalls down to let them fall to his feet.

"Showtime," said Ike. Between his legs, white and hairy, his semi-hard cock emerged from a tangled mass of brown and gray pubic hair. The foreskin, still puckered beyond the head of the cock, extended downward forty-five degrees from the horizontal but was definitely on the rise.

I could only stare at the man. Until the day before, I had never seen an older man with an erection besides my grandpa.

Ike moved his fingers along the stalk of his manhood until the head partially emerged, purplish and broad. He removed his hand for a moment and it bobbled obscenely in the subdued light of the potting shed. Ike leaned back against a bin of clay pots like a model on display. "Like I said, boy, it gets the job done."

I found it difficult not to watch. "You shouldn't . . ."

"C'mon, boy. Show Ike your pecker. I'm betting it's nice and hard."

I grasped my belt and tugged on the open end. I slipped the waistband button and two more before pushing down my blue jeans and shorts down in one move. My cock bounced and slapped my belly as I straightened."

"That's a beaut." Ike stroked his pale, white cock with the purplish-pink head shining. "I'm betting it'll grow some more if you stroke it."

"We really shouldn't . . ."

"Now don't tell me you never stroked your hard peter with a buddy."

"I've done that," I finally admitted,. "But he was the same age as me and it was a long time ago." I though back to the last time Chuck and me jerked each other off in the loft of our old barn. Chuck wanted more as a going away present and we had sucked each other's dicks a little bit.

"Jackin's always better when you do it with somebody," said Ike. "Then you can lend each other a helping hand."

"I don't know about that," I said.

Ike's hand continued moving on his old cock as he leaned over to inspect mine. "God Damn! Boy. That cock looks good enough to eat." Ike licked his lips. "You ever had that baby sucked?"

I shook my head as I watched the old man stroke his hard, pale cock.

"Well boy, I'd say you're packing a real mouthful for some lucky gal or guy." He grinned. "Well c'mon. Let's see you get down to some serious jacking. Old Ike's way ahead of you."

I wrapped my fist around my stiff cock and moved the foreskin up and over the head on the up stroke. On the down stroke the expanded corona of the angry, purple head stared obscenely at the naked old man.

Ike toyed with his modest six inches. "What do you think of this old man's cock?" His fist rode down to his balls and a cockhead smaller than the barrel stared back at mine.

"I guess I'm thinking this is like doing it with my grandpa."

"You ever wish you could a done this with your grandpa?"

"I thought about it a lot."

"Ever see him with a hard-on."

"I told you about that!"

"Ever think about him doing your grandma?"

"I can't imagine her ever doing anything with a man.

"Take my word for it, sonny, we know she did it or you wouldn't be here." Begrudgingly I nodded in agreement.

"Everybody fucks," said old Ike. "They fuck or they jack off."

"If you say so."

"Say sonny, your cocks getting real juicy with slickum. Want old Ike to lick some of it away?"

"You wouldn't."

Ike licked his lips as he kept his hand pistoning up and down his hard cock. "You might be surprised what old Ike might do if he was in the mood for a taste of what comes out of a hard cock."

And that is what he proceeded to do. He sucked me dry.

Then he erupted in half-a-dozen spurts shooting out and onto the dirt floor of the potting shed. He gave his cock a flip and shucked t back into his overalls. He unwrapped a sandwich from its wax paper and proceed to eat without washing his hands. He took a bite and chewed. "Nothing like it boy, a good jacking clears the cobwebs from your crotch and gives a man an appetite."


The following day, We skipped the preliminaries. We dropped our pants. Ike got down on his knees and sucked me until I was hard and good and wet before he stood and turned.

"C'mon boy, Shove that pretty cock up old Ike's tight, brown hole and massage old Ike's prostate.

Ike bent forward and gripped the edge of the potting bench. The lean, white cheeked buttocks parted slightly and exposed the dark brown, crinkly, puckered star of his asshole "Now you go slow and ease it along until you've got it all the way in," he cautioned. "This old ass craves your young cock but it don't want too much too soon. You've got to let this old hole stretch to accommodate you."

"Are you sure you want to do this?"

"Easy boy, easy," he cautioned. "You feel a lot bigger than you look. Put a little more spit in your cock."

"It's awfully tight. I don't know if it's going to go or not."

"It'll go," said Ike. "There's been bigger boys than you up the old shit chute."

I slipped in the the last few inches.. "It's all in."

"I can tell," said Ike. "Your cock hairs are tickling my ass."

"Are you ready," I asked.

"How are you liking old Ike's hairy asshole so far?"

"It's real tight."

"Tighter than your fist?"

"Might be."

"Ready to throw a fuck into a man that reminds you of your grandpa."

"I reckon."

"I want you should do old Ike one more favor."


While you're pumpin' my ass, would you reach around and play with my dick like you would your own? Would you do that for an old man?"

I reached around and took hold of his hard cock sticking out straight in front of him. I pilled the skin back and then pulled it up and over the expanded glans. I felt my own cock expand inside him as I manipulated his staff in my fingers. I imagined that my cock extended through him and I was playing with what came out the other side of him.

"C'mon, boy, ram that big cock up the old shitter and make me know it. God Damn! tickle that old prostate and make old Ike come!"

I came. And I came. Ike's tightened up on my cock and I throbbed Roman Candle bursts into that brown hole as I pressed into him. His hairy, scrawny ass flattened against my crotch and we were joined as tightly as two humans can be.

"A man's not a man till he's cum in another man." said old Ike. "You made it, boy. But still, a man's not a man till he's had a hard cock poked up his ass at least once."

Every time I think of that scene, I get another hard-on. Then I remember the next day when old Ike returned the favor.

I never have managed to come that hard again. If only Ike were here.

Microsoft has an agenda (1, Interesting)

TheRecklessWanderer (929556) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249308)

Microsoft has an Agenda. Ultimately, this agenda is to sell product and make money for the shareholders.

It's no different than any other corporation except it has become extremely successful, and has not exercised the highest standards of business practices. However, given the nature of the business, it's not doing anything that any other corporation would not do. Using all it's resources to be the most profitable it fan be.

I also think that a lot of people bash Microsoft because it's easy, and because they sound smart doing it. It's easy to sound smart when you are saying why things are bad. The more forceful you sound, the more reaasonable your argument. Most people don't understand/know/care enough to refute the argument.

Other people think that MS charges too much for product. Well, if you don't like it don't buy it. It's not my fault your on welfare.

For starters.. (2, Insightful)

CranberryKing (776846) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249316)

They've crippled inovation in favour of maintaining a monopoly for YEARS now. And I'm not just talking about having alternative OS and word processors. They have been THE_PRIMARY_OBSTACLE for software (and hardware) being truly useful and allowing choice and the possibility of enhancing our lives and contributing to the human condition.

Plus the windows interface sucks.

Believe it.

Re:For starters.. (1)

arifirefox (1031488) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249496)

how do you maintain a monopoly? Only if it isn't challenged. come on, make something better so people will switch. Unfortunately, Microsoft's competitors were so cocky with their own dominance that they failed to adapt and improve (Palm and Netscape come to mind) and were easy pickings for Microsoft. What about Adobe? I switched to Foxit reader because I couldn't stand Acrobat anymore. That tells me Adobe could be in *big* trouble even though they are resting on PDF dominance right now.

Simple. (0)

Pig Hogger (10379) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249320)

They're big. They're arrogant. They think that because they are the biggest, they know better. They don't care about others.

Anyone who does the above will not be the most popular guy around.

Re:Simple. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#17249566)

Sounds like america.

Not as widespread as you think. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#17249326)

Everyone doesn't hate Microsoft. In my experience only people who work in the software industry are likely to "hate" Microsoft, and even then it's not a majority. Most people I've talked to in the industry seem more likely to feel indifferent towards them (including myself). And most non-technical people probably don't know enough to feel one way or the other. Just because somebody thinks Windows 98 is a piece of shit (which it is) doesn't mean he hates Microsoft. And just because a bunch of vocal left-wingers on Slashdot "hate" Microsoft doesn't mean everybody does. In fact, if you take the time to look outside of the tiny Slashdot niche you will find the vast majority of people are much more towards the center, and not just on the issue of Microsoft. For some reasons Slashdotters seem to believe that they hold views that are common with the majority; in a lot of instances, this just simply isn't the case.

two words: user friendly (1)

deadlock911 (629647) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249328)

i would stop hating Microsoft products if they would stop trying to make all my decisions for me... i currently am forced to use word and frontpage together. my day consists of ALOT of deleting, deleting the extra 2 lines of code it puts before AND after every line i paste into frontpage, deleting the extra tags it places whenever i hit enter. cant they just make a product that does what its meant to AND NOTHING ELSE?

Re:two words: user friendly (3, Insightful)

Deltaspectre (796409) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249604)


Forced & UNWANTED "upgrades" (3, Insightful)

Announcer (816755) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249332)

One of my biggest complaints is how they FORCE people to upgrade to increasingly fragile, vulnerable versions of Windows. They make it so that software vendors mush move along, thus leaving odler versions behind, and ensuring that new versions do NOT run on older versions of Windows.

They have also really upped the "Big Brother" role, where in some instances, perfectly legitimate installs of XP have been shut down by MS's update servers, claiming that they were bootleg or pirate copies. Then just TRY and get MS to unlock your system...? Have your credit card ready. NO THANKS!

There are still a lot of systems running under 98SE that are working just fine, thank you. I don't need or want to spend $200 for a version of windows that is more likely to "break" my currently running software, and won't run on otherwise perfectly viable/functional hardware. I also do not like the "phone home" and "Big Brother" aspects that are built into XP and the new Vista. My 98SE runs everything I need.

Oh, and don't even get me started on their super-vulnerable browser and e-mail clients.

That's my 3c worth.

I just want to say... (0, Troll)

aardvarkjoe (156801) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249334)

I have to say, I thought that I'd seen everything, but this is the stupidest Ask Slashdot ever.

Re:I just want to say... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#17249480)

I just submitted the following Ask Slashdot:

"I'm doing a short project on the RIAA and its impact on society. A considerable part of this project has been looking into people's perceptions of the music industry and the heavily negative bias of that perception. Since Slashdot is one of the world's forefront leaders on RIAA hatred, I wanted to know: just why do you hate the RIAA? Please be as descriptive and as thorough as you like. Counter arguments and positive comments are also appreciated."

Come on, everybody, go for it. I'm sure you've got hundreds of similar questions you'd like to ask.

hrm (1)

Danzigism (881294) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249340)

makes me wonder, that without these super giant software companies, would opensource care to thrive or would people be even as committed as we are today? its not like we're trying to take them down and out.. we just want to give everyone the ability to use a computer regardless of money.. they both need to coexist to exist in the first place..

Lack of humility? NIH? (5, Interesting)

bunyip (17018) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249342)

Here's an example...

When NT was first announced, I thought it was the coolest thing since bottled beer. The protected mode subsystems looked like a way to consolidate the APIs of multiple systems. As smoebody who'd already programmed Unix, PDP-11 (RSX), VAX-VMS, MVS, Univac, CDC, etc in the years prior, I thought NT was going to totally rock. It had the potential to subsume everything around it.

Little by little, the OS/2 compatibility evaporated, X-Windows was declared "brain dead", it went beyond embrace and extend, it became Microsoft's way or the highway.

I still wonder - if MS had supported POSIX / UNIX APIs in a protected mode subsystem, would Linux have really "happened"?


no hate (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#17249346)

I don't hate them. Windows 2003 Server kicks ass as a desktop operating system, especially with 50+ third-party products to make it usable. Internet Explorer is just an example of how broken the vendor-owned browser/client/server model is; Mozilla/Opera are just a temporary gesture of goodwill before the Web disappears as quickly as Usenet. ClearType is also the only font renderer that doesn't suck completely, which allows me to read for hours on an LCD.

They dumbed down the computing world... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#17249356)

...with inferior products that are poorly designed, work "most" of the time, and take power and choice away from the end-user and put it in the hands of the people at Redmond.

and thanks to software from Microsoft and the like, end-users have become the most stupid people on the face of the earth. Seriously. By dumbing down the OS and making it "user-friendly", Microsoft began Melissa, which begat Code Red, which begat an entire industry just focused on trying to secure Windows.

The end result is that Microsoft takes away choices. Microsoft locks in users. Microsoft is, dare I say, un-American.

Duh (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#17249358)


2 Reasons (5, Funny)

Marty200 (170963) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249372)

A) Because the products aren't that good... They are often buggy and insecure,

B) They have way more money than me.

Either one of those is reason enough for me to hate them.

opportunity cost (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#17249384)

Because I imagine a world where Microsoft didn't exist would be better. Although
I do give them credit for providing a single, central scapegoat for anything that
goes wrong with computers ever. Blame Bill Gates!

the biggest motor for free software (1)

cies (318343) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249392)

the free software movement should thanks MS, afteral it was MS up-tight policies that cauzed so much pain that massively drove developers into volunteeringly developing an alternative in order to never suffer from the closed source.

revolutions need a motivation, thanks MS for beeing a large pain in the a... ehh.. motivation!

we needed a common enemy figure, a black sheep, a well known target for our jokes.
you have served us well i guess...

now it is time to leave, you served your purpose in this world, and (in directly and unknowingly) you made this world a better place.

dear MS, we will remember you long after you go bankrupt of not beeing able to succeed in the software as a service market: it was nice having such a good (anti) example!

If everybody truely hated microsoft (3, Insightful)

Thaidog (235587) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249402)

They would be gone... the fact is that Microsoft's marketing & legal practices keep them moving. It gets to the point where it has nothing to do with how good their software is.

Because they are not as good as they could be... (1)

Dylanesque (868329) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249408)

As the richest corporation on Earth, I would kind of expect their products to be beacons of excellence. But they are not. I like their software tools, but Word? I use it obviously, but if I make a complex document with Equations and similar embedded, it crashes and I lose data. It >still happens and it simply needn't. So I don't really hate Microsoft, I just hold them in contempt for being dearer and poorer than they could be. I too think they will collapse within the decade. OK laugh but when it happens it will happen quickly.

Re:Because they are not as good as they could be.. (1)

Jarjarthejedi (996957) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249550)

"As the richest corporation on Earth, I would kind of expect their products to be beacons of excellence" Why? Because they can afford to sell their products for less than it costs them to make? Find me a corporation that does that and I'll show you one that's out of business soon (I mean their entire product line, Sony's PS3 doesn't count). No matter how much money a corporation has it's goal must be to make a profit, otherwise it's going to die out. Microsoft sells their product at a price that's cheap enough for most people to afford but high enough to make a profit. If you want a better product then you're gonna have to pay more. I'm not saying it's right, and I do agree with you, in an ideal world those with money would make the best products. But this is not an ideal world, those with money tend to make the cheapest products and you get what you pay for. ((And, just out of curiosity, what kind of document needs equations and stuff embedded? All I can think of is forms for people to fill out, but I'd just do those as web-forms personally...though I guess I can see a use for something someone can work on off-line and then e-mail to you...))

People hate their ____ providers (2, Interesting)

DM78 (1022835) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249414)

When it comes to commercial products, people hate their ____ providers (fill in the blank with the service). Blizzard makes a decent MMO product that millions of people use, but there's a HUGE group of their players who *hate* them even though they use the product. Same with Sony Online Entertainment and Turbine and so on. The same goes for Sprint, Cingular, Verizon, ATandT, et cetera for mobile telephone service -- especially big hatred among the users there, but the service is generally the same across the board... and it's even more ubiquitous. Microsoft is the big, bad behemoth that gives everyone their Operating System. Billions of people hate Microsoft, yet hapily use the product (myself included), likely for the same reason as the above reasons. The only non-commercial exception to this is Government, even though it's the same concept -- everyone hates their goverment, but without the governing, the world would fall apart and it would be a much, much worse place -- theoretically speaking, of course.

7 words. (1)

tonsofpcs (687961) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249420)

Opening scene of Pirates of Silicon Valley.

...or you can use the seven dirty words, your choice.

hate microsoft? (1)

brilman (1040086) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249422)

i hate them because bill gates and his company is more interested in money than innovation and you can see that because it wasn't until firefox and linux's super take off were they like...hey we should get to work...on something

Nobody likes a bully... (5, Insightful)

mustard (23354) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249442)

MS conducts themselves as a bully.

Nobody likes a bully.

My .02 cents (2, Insightful)

Jarjarthejedi (996957) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249444)

I think that for many people Microsoft is hated simply because it's the biggest target. Personally I don't exactly 'hate' Microsoft. I think their OS could be quite a bit better and that they could do a lot more to help their users out. Why do I think that about Microsoft and not, say, Apple? Well because Microsoft's what everyone uses. Frankly I could care less what Apple does, because I don't use it, no one I know uses it, and the computer I help set up as a part-time job don't use it.

So I look at those computers and I see how often they crash, how virus prone they are and the natural impulse is to blame the OS for not being more crash and virus-proof. And since in every case the OS is Microsoft Windows I've developed a bias from only seeing Window's fail. I've never seen another OS crash, I know they exist, so therefore my OS must be worse. It's the good old fashion 'grass must be greener, 'cause mine looks pretty yellow' problem.

I'm sure that if I were to use Linix or Apple (*dons protective flame suit*) I would encounter just as many problems as Windows. They'd be different problems, but there would be problems none-the-less. Frankly I expect my computer to run perfectly and without error in spite of what I do to it, and I expect the computer to compensate for other users who are no where near as technologically inclined as myself. Is that rational to expect that much? No. Is it human impulse to expect that much? Of course. So who's to blame for my computer not running as I irrationally want it to? It's much easier to pick a large target that other people pick on and blame them for every problem rather than acknowledge that the problem is at least partially my fault for trying to use the program in a way it shouldn't be used.

Another part of the Microsoft bashing, in my opinion, is the bandwagon syndrome. It's become officially 'cool' to bash Microsoft and so many people who have never had a single problem bash them anyways.

In all honesty Microsoft get's a lot more flak than they deserve. Is their product perfect? Certainly not! Is it supposed to be? Of course not! Do we expect it to be? Oh yeah. Who's easier to blame? Yourself, for having unrealistic expectation, or a large easy to bash company for not conforming to those unrealistic expectations?

Am I saying Microsoft makes the best software? No, there's better stuff out there for advanced users (take, for instance, my FireFox browser I'm using). Is Microsoft's products as good as should be expected of such a large program? I think so.

What could have been. (2, Interesting)

ninthwave (150430) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249448)

I have seen what could have been, that was not realized because of the current monopoly.
I liked BeOS, more than Linux, more than Apple. I though OS/2 was better than Windows but was not a fan of IBM at the time. I liked WordPerfect more than Office. In fact for each set of software Microsoft has, the alternative that was destroyed I liked before it died a horrible death due to a monopoly tie in. All because Bill Gates was able to sell DOS to IBM, before he actually bought the program from the developer. But good placement, good timing and there are wonderful things Microsoft has done for computing, but their defense of their market monopoly has destroyed some beautiful what could have beens.

Not complete hatred (5, Insightful)

Enderandrew (866215) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249450)

They became a giant by stealing other people's ideas, establishing a status quo of mediocrity, and squashed innovation.

It is frustrating knowing that better products exist that will never get a chance because of their hegemony.

However, I do really like certain Microsoft products. I think Defender is a great idea, perhaps a few years late in the game. MS Office is a great product. Their development tools are good.

And Microsoft has become considerably less evil in recent years, but they have no regards for standards and make life unduly difficult for a great deal of people. Sometimes it doesn't even serve a financial purpose.

Look at their history with Sun and Java. Microsoft clearly has no respect for other's rights or licenses. And they want the internet to be something proprietary that they control, again even if it costs them money, and they don't gain anything from it. They just want to control things. By pushing for browser-specific tags, and refusing to conform to web standards, every webmaster on the planet is put out to design around both standards and Microsoft.

Does Microsoft make money of IE? No. They give it away for free, while throwing butt-loads of money developing it. So why continue to spend money fucking the entire internet over? Because they are bullies who like to remain the king of every hill they can find, even if it means forcing customers into inferior products.

That's why.

I think Microsoft's pretty neat (1, Insightful)

defile (1059) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249456)

They created a platform that commoditized the underlying computer and jump-started a PC revolution. An independent developer can reach a market of half a billion desktops with a single binary. How neat is that?

Now, in theory Java, OpenGL, POSIX, J2ME, XHTML/CSS, etc. are supposed to allow you to do portable development and treat the underlying platform as a commodity, but the problem with de jure standards is that you'll either be stuck with a standard that lags far behind the state of the art or a standard that is loosely adhered to, and is rife with incompatibilities, despite passing all of the compatiblity tests people can think up. Maybe you've seen standards that work, but every single one that I've dealt with has cost me or my company a lot more than simply targetting a Microsoft platform with 90% installed base does.

It seems like the best way to get commodity behavior is for one company to win and push a homogenous platform. Of course, it sucks when you have 10 vendors trying to do that and none of them have any majority marketshare. Microsoft's neat because they won, and won so well.

What Microsoft did with PC hardware is similiar to what open source does with essential digital infrastructure: it commoditizes them by becoming the one standard reference implementation. Where a mature open source product exists, the only market for proprietary software in that segment seems to be niches.

Simple (4, Informative)

complete loony (663508) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249470)

It's MY Computer. It's MY Data.

Microsoft's goal is to own and control everything on my computer, in the server room, eventually perhaps in my lounge room and anywhere else they can imagine. And they try to keep it that way by deliberately avoiding existing open standards and interoperability with existing applications. They adopt new standards with reluctance, and even then they break them.

Already some pretty good lists (1)

quizzicus (891184) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249474)

Well, Wikipedia lists a couple [wikipedia.org] reasons [wikipedia.org] ...

What sells (1)

hhawk (26580) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249484)

Think about the best French food in Paris some place that dinner can run $300 to $500 per person and then think about McDonalds.

Microsoft markets their products as if they were that French place in Paris, but in truth the they are selling at the McDonalds quality level. (Very clean, good ingredients, but it's not Haut Cusine...) and because they have such a large marketshare, they dump some products on the market cheap (E.g., IE) and some products they try to sell if you need them or not (e.g., Windows) and some they price higher than you would like (Office Suite vs the price of Word by itself..).

With the expectation/mindset that your getting the best food in world but when you actually get McD's and you pay what you pay the net results is that many people are less than happy.

They should just admit they make a mass market product for the masses, price it appropriately and call it day..

i hate them because.. (1)

SpaceballsTheUserNam (941138) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249492)

when i try to open powerpoints exported to webpages that teachers post their class notes in with firefox they wont open. and i highly suspect its on purpose.

the future that has been late in coming (1, Insightful)

rgaginol (950787) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249508)

One poster said without microsoft we wouldn't have nice PC's and an environment which just works. I hate microsoft for the future that has been delayed by a good decade. For all the bloody inconsistencies between browsers, which are still present I hate them. Things like Ajax enabled Apps would have been possible earlier if these issues hadn't been so bad at first. Good on Google for making their Web Toolkit so I can program in Java and create Javascript compatible with most browsers out there. If Microsoft had used their position responsibly from the word go and encouraged or stuck to established standards for their browsers and documents we would not have had the lock in we did. Ever hear the phrase, "Oh we'd like to use XXXX software but it's not compatible with Microsoft XXXX". Yeah, I hate them for locking me in, and I hate them for making other companies trying to compete look like the bad guys for not having compatibility with proprietary obscure formats. Reboots. Maybe that's my biggest gripe. Bloody 3 Reboots on some of those Service Packs.

Monopoly Money (1)

Doc Ruby (173196) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249516)

It's a monopoly. What's to like?

That's not a rhetorical question. The problem with Microsoft is that it blots out alternatives that could be considered on their merits with its market dominance and abuse.

And people can tell that Microsoft's "innovation" is so selfserving that there's not much new going on in the world, because there's not much going on at Microsoft. People want more, but we can't get it, because we can't get it from Microsoft.

That makes us angry.

I've been told by my boss/client at Microsoft... (1)

IronTeardrop (913955) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249518)

...to do some research on why the Microsoft brand has developed such a negative association and to try and understand just why we continue to lose market share and get bad press.

I have been instructed to spin this situation as being "people's perceptions of Microsoft and the heavily negative bias of that perception" and "Microsoft hatred" rather than attribute it to any product shortcomings, late delivery, anti-competitive behaviour or other mis-steps conducted by my employer/client.

So, I wanted to know: just what is wrong with you? Please be as descriptive and as thorough as you like. Counter arguments and positive comments are also appreciated, as it makes our copywriters' jobs much easier.

Cause MS won't let Mac users get married (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#17249520)

And Gates bans their pervert literature from elementary schools.
No Daddy's MacBook Pro or Heather has 2 iPods.

Sharing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#17249532)

I just went to a LUG meeting and listened to a talk from one of the industry pioneers. He was sharing his knowledge, experiences. Now I'm relatively new to the computing scene -- started maybe 15 years ago during college -- and the speaker had been involved with computers for decades. Before Microsoft there was a culture of sharing. People would do interesting things and let others know about it and teach them how to do similar things. With Microsoft this really cool way of life was lost and replaced with pure commercialism. Don't share because it would affect sales. Patent everything. Sue competitors out of existence. Engage in monopolist tactics to wipe out competition. Make money and screw everyone else.

The difference is that Microsoft is in it for the money first. Non-Microsoft folks seem to be in it for the technology or for making a difference in the world.

People claim that Microsoft, with their ever more complex software, drives the PC industry. My take is that they've hindered it because of their crusade against the culture of sharing.


History won't be kind: greed has overtaken them (1)

postbigbang (761081) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249540)

Their business practices have always been to look at innovators, find out what they do well, then kill them after doing it better or just good-enough. They've been convicted in jurisdictions across the planet of evil doings in business practices. This started at the top, and it permeated much of the organization.

They tried to dictate to others, and use overwhelming financial muscularity to brutalize the competition, no matter who or what or how the competition did business. They violated anti-trust laws, patents, copyrights, all well documented.

They were overcome by the greed that their wealth produced. And they maintain this, assuaged only partially by governmental monitoring. They are bullies, and they are fat, and they are unkind, and they (almost psychopathically) don't care that you care. It's all for the stockholders, kid. It's capitalism at its very ugliest. Somewhere in there, they wrote some code and did a few innovative things. Like a sociopath has no need for love, Microsoft seemingly only cares for shareholder return.

Lack of options (2, Interesting)

tommyj1986 (1004101) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249548)

It's easy to find someone who hates anything. Microsoft however has been the prime target of computer hatred simply because there is a lack of options. Their are tons of choices for an OS, but for most consumers, they don't go much further than Windows. Also Microsoft markets itself as Professional software and in this day and age Professional anything is expected to be flawless. I personally don't like Microsoft simply because I am a strong believer and open source, and believe that the free software available is more stable and flexible than the products I have to pay for with Microsoft.

Because of their illegal business practices. (1)

liftphreaker (972707) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249554)

We hate mircoshaft because of their business practices. Forcing small companies and larger vendors to ship only microsoft products or else kill them with unfair pricing, killing smaller competitors, stealing ideas and designs from everyone else, and producing fat, buge, slow bug ridden bloatware.

I don't (2, Interesting)

chaoticgeek (874438) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249556)

I don't hate them. I may not agree with how they go about everything, but they are there. I do prefer linux, espicaly ubuntu over windows, but I do have to use windows. The thing I hate is companies who create software that schools use that is only windows based.

I don't really hate them per se... (3, Interesting)

drenehtsral (29789) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249558)

I don't really _hate_ Microsoft per se, but I find that they don't really have my needs in mind (as a developer and long-time computer user). My gripes are really pretty simple:

I don't like being crammed into an unnecesarily GUI environment. I like the simplicity of scripting and automation that comes with a real command line environment.

I don't like giving up control of my computer. Microsoft is always pushing one thing after another which all take control away from me, the user, in the name of making things easier or safer or some other nonsense. Things that fall under this category are the following: DRM / Trusted Computing, Hiding of system files, Hiding of file extensions, animated toolbars, the fact that IE takes any web server error (40x, 50x, host not found, connection timed out, etc...) and puts up the same uninformative dumbed down error message up. I really want to know the details, and it hides them.

I don't like their pushing of various fad programming models in their development tools. I remember when I upgraded from Visual C++ 5 to VC6 they had taken the raw win32 calls out of the table of contents, so if you looked things up that way, you'd see the MFC way first, unless you knew the calls already, in which case the index could turn them up. When I upgraded again, they had taken the calls out of the index too, but a full text search of the help turned up some examples... There is NO EXCUSE to EVER hide documentation from users, much less DEVELOPERS. I recognize that they are trying to wean people off of win32 so they can go to a more hardware independent .net stuff, and that may be cool and all, but part of my job entails maintaining a large (30,000+ line) code base written in pretty much all straight C that uses a lot of win32 calls, and it really sucks that the best documentation on all of that is Google's translation of the chineese version of Visual C 5.x's help files.

So, yeah, basicly I have largely negative feelings about Microsoft because they don't do a terribly good job of meeting my needs, which wouldn't be such a big deal, except that as a near-monopoly they try very hard to stamp out competing systems that may actually meet my needs quite well. They aren't stamping them out to keep my dollar, they're just doing it in case any of those competing solutions actually turns out better than Windows and draws mainstream users away. As such, they are definitely pissing on my [figurative] corn flakes.

Because Microsoft is a Corporate Criminal (4, Insightful)

dircha (893383) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249576)

Microsoft is a convicted illegal monopolist.

Microsoft was let off the legal hook by a fortunate change in administrations - more like a fortunate failure to honor the democratic will of the people.

Microsoft spends billions of dollars around the world lobbying for initiatives that restrict and suppress open standards and free software, guaranteeing expansion of its monopoly worldwide and into emerging and developing markets.

Bill Gates may be attempting to use his money to make a positive impact in this world in order to whitewash his legacy in his old age, but had governments and businesses and people invested in open standards and free software instead of the monopolist's products, we would still have Bill's money in our collective pockets, developing our economies, educating our children, and feeding our families.

The insecurities of an aging robber baron are little consolation for the great human and natural resources he has squandered through ruthless malice, contempt for law, personal aggrandizement, and cronyism.

How'd I do?

MS makes my life harder (2, Insightful)

Riquez (917372) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249594)

It's a simple question to answer.
Every encounter I have with anything related to Windows or Microsoft makes my life harder.

Our entire office switch to Macs a few months ago & now I never hear the dull thud of someone beating their head against the desk.

...I think it smells better in here too ;)

To Be Quite Honest (1)

Nanpa (971527) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249596)

I like microsoft. There, I said it. Yup, you can troll me now.

But, I've never really had an issue with microsoft. I've used Win95 when it's been a dog, and Win98 when it's been a dog and hasn't. XP has cleaned up all of the issues and works like a dream. No nonsense mucking about for a bloody MP3 codec because some ideological twat doesn't like it. And it works! No mucking about configuring soundcards for a bloody game, no messing about with TSR's... At most upgrading DirectX. Rarely. And the upshot of the monopoly is that nigh on EVERYTHING with support some iteration of Windows. No need for a grandiose "Graaaaaaaaargh how dare Company X not release a client for Software Y".

Despise, not hate (1)

denissmith (31123) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249600)

There is a difference. Microsoft embodies the worst of capitalism: Untruthful, and using those lies to undermine the market, destroy rivals through deception, unfair competition and other nasty FUDDY ways. Think Word Perfect - undermined by low-ball pricing, then when the product began to fade jacking up the price for Office. Think Netscape, undermined by a free product to eliminate the market altogether. Then lies about IE as an 'integral' part of the OS that can't be eliminated- somehow Unix, Linux, and MacOS didn't have that problem. Think of all the great ideas that other people had that microsoft undermined by announcing that the next version of Windows would include that feature. Only it never appeared in a later release - it was a strategic announcement designed to scare away the money men. Think about the efforts that Steve Ballmer is making to cast doubt on the legal status of Linux - everything he says about patents applies equally to Windows - it probably violates the same number of patents. Basically, the company is dishonest to a degree that undermines the market. I am contemptuous of them for this. Then the product itself. Very weak in the OS department, they were OK at the NT 4 stage, not up to Unix, but ahead of Mac and Linux. That was the high point - they have stagnated and Linux and Mac OS have literally blown past them, yet they maintain an inertial lock on the desktop. This is changing, but it won't be really evident for 2 years. Office is a good product, but they charge a premium for yesterday - and Office is so yesterday. I am contemptuous of them for that. Security was a non-thought with them. They had a hobbyist view of the world of computing and adapted it to an internet world on the fly - remember they were reacting to events that they were powerless to define. They were late to the game and they had a toy OS (windows 95) in the pipe and they just put it out and prayed. Their prayers were not answered. Windows is unsecurable. I have contempt for them for that. But I don't hate them, they are pathetic - very rich, but still not worthy of envy or hate. They are just guys ( and women) in over their heads.

They are lazy incompetents forcing me to pay up. (1)

FFFish (7567) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249618)

That's basically what got my goat in the end: knowing that the OS I was using was a piece of insecure crap that was buggy as hell and yet I was basically forced to use because everyone else was using it. And knowing that this would just keep on continuing because Microsoft is basically too damn lazy and too damn incompetent to just Make It Work. And that I'd have to keep shelling out and shelling out for upgrades and anti-virus crap and downtime losses and on and endlessly on.

It isn't difficult to feel considerable antipathy toward Microsoft when one becomes aware what's going on.

um (1)

snarfbot (1036906) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249624)

because they try to aggressively limit competition in any way possible???????

and then they have the gall to deliver inferior products, and provide poor support for their crappy buggy, bloatware.

and also the fact that the man behind the company is the richest man in the world, and hes only giving his children a million bucks out of his 50 billion or whatever, and whenever he donates to charity its in windows product!!!!!! i mean how is it possible to not hate this company?

Top 10 reasons I hate Microsoft (3, Insightful)

hackus (159037) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249634)

1) A company that charges $150 per phone call for problems with its software, has no incentive to create decent software. In fact, they get paid to write poor software.
2) Standards in Web Design cost the industry Billions just to write specific Mikeysoft Explorer Code.
3) The free Virus/Malware kit features since 1998 that this company just can't seem to fix with all the PhD's it hires and fundamentally, doesn't understand why LINUX, SELinux are going to become the defacto standard in CIA and Corporate computing security.
4) The Endless nights of pages way back when I was a Mikeysoft dork admin, just to reboot a computer at 3AM, EVERY night for 2 years. Some things never change.
5) The balls this company has to push the industry .net as a "Business Solution" as if we are all just stupid and don't recognize it for what it is: A bloated Framework designed to sell more Microsoft servers and software and a feeble attempt to kill java. NOT a software framework to solve your business problems.
6)The whole Microsoft Office thing. Gad where do I start? How about Incompatible with Itself, specifically designed so that Excel 97 Macro's don't quite import perfectly into 2000.
7) DICTATING to everyone that Windows 2000 is no longer supported, we refuse to fix bugs in our software unless you upgrade. If you don't we do not care if 2000 meets your business needs, our shareholders demand you buy licenses for all your stuff AGAIN.
8) Reboot the OS everytime you make a friggin change. Reboot! Reboot! Reboot! Reboot!
9) Trying to Kill Linux with the whole trusted computing thing and working on proprietary BIOS'es. How SAD.
10) And last but not least....creating legions of Idiot Admins that can't do anything unless they are lead around by a OK or CANCEL button. God help them if they don't have a setup Icon someplace! One company who single handedly has put the US back into the Dark ages while the rest of the world MOVES ON without us.

Thanks Mikeysoft for all the fun and thank god I left that fun to everyone else 12 years ago when I switched to Linux.

Opposition is misinterpreted as hatred (5, Insightful)

roca (43122) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249636)

I don't hate Microsoft. I think their products are often very good, given that software from any vendor tends to suck in various ways.

I *oppose* Microsoft because they have a monopoly position in markets with high barriers to entry. In this situation, competition suffers, and without competition we get stagnation. It is a good thing for me to spend my efforts towards increasing competition rather than decreasing it, which generally requires opposing Microsoft.

How we arrived at this situation is not very relevant. It's partly Microsoft's doing, partly not. The computer industry suffers from structural network effects that drive the marketplace towards monopolies; that's not Microsoft's fault. But Microsoft certainly did (and does) many ethical and unethical things to reach and maintain its position.

People tend to think that if you oppose Microsoft, you must also hate them, but it's not so.

Examples... (2, Insightful)

djupedal (584558) | more than 8 years ago | (#17249642)

I was working in Japan, near Tokyo, for a company that manufactured medical imaging equipment - MRI, CT etc. At one point I had to create a small team to work on technical documentation, which found us setting up several PC's with Windows. One of the people I had on the team was a Chinese gentleman, who had left China where he was a college professor.

One day, his computer had a typical Windows lock-up & bluescreen and he asked me for help. As the box rebooted, I held down the keys that let you bypass the initial splash screens and go right to the desktop. He was surprised and I asked why? He said he didn't imagine you could avoid the splash screens if you wished and I told him, sure, why not...they don't do anything but advertise MS Windows. He thought for a moment and then smiled and said "Ah...brainwashing!"

I had to laugh, of course. After all, who better to cut to the truth of why those screens were there, than someone who had left his homeland in an effort to avoid a lifetime of such treatment.

MS is for MS...never customers. This has always been the situation and one many of us are not comfortable accepting.

Other reasons:
- MS makes a habit of rewriting history (Gates did not write DOS, etc).
- Investing in MS is risking having your own money used against you in the marketplace.
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