What To Do With a Free Xbox 360 Pro? 416
OzPeter writes "Last week I won an Xbox 360 Pro. However, I am not a gamer, and after looking at the current MS offerings, I am not tempted to become one. But I am in the market for a Media Center PC that I can use for streaming TV shows off the 'net as well as general web browsing and displaying video through the HDMI port. With that in mind, I again looked at MS and saw they seemed to have positioned the Xbox as an adjunct to a separate Windows Media Center PC and not as a stand alone unit (which is not what I want). So, once again, I did some more research into the Xbox homebrew scene and discovered things like Xbox Linux. But after reading that site, it is apparent that MS is trying to beat down the homebrewers, and I am left wondering how much hassle it would be to go down that path. So my question is: how should I re-purpose my Xbox? Is it worthwhile doing the Homebrew/Linux option (and can anyone share any experiences)? Are there other ways of re-purposing the device that I haven't considered? Or should I just keep it boxed up as a Christmas present for a favorite nephew?"
Why bother? (Score:5, Insightful)
Why let yourself in for a world of hurt for a device which will likely never operate in the way you require.
Best to give it as a gift, or sell it on eBay and pocket the cash, and invest that in your stand alone box.
Frankly, I can't believe you are even contemplating it.
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The problem with this is just like PS3 Linux. Microsoft and Sony offer a legitimate way to get homebrew on the device - Microsoft with their XNA environment (and a $99/year fee to put your homebrew on your Xbox360 and sell it (yes, Micro
"Give it to charity"? (Score:3, Insightful)
With games at 50-60 bucks a pop the actual 'box' part of the XBox is only the beginning of the expense of owning a console.
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Here's a few: Dead Rising, Assassin's Creed, Mirror's Edge, GTA4, Viva Pinata. Yes, many of the 360 games are multi-platform, but the used market is usually much cheaper for consoles, due to the volume of games on the market and no DRM-Resell issues that PC games often come with. If you're paying $60 for anything but release date games, you're doing it wrong. (Even then, day of release games can often
Re:Why bother? (Score:5, Interesting)
The Nintendo Wii development kit is $1,700.
The Sony PS3 development kit is $2,000 (non-Linux)
The XBox 360 development kit....$100
Compared to the others, the XBox 360 development kit is a steal. As for not offering anything in return, consider:
1.) Small indie teams can work on a major console without breaking the budget.
2.) The games created by the small indie teams can be hosted on a major console's server, allowing instant access to millions of possible customers.
3.) Small indie teams don't have to be major developers in order to use it (unlike Nintendo).
Depending on the price that the game ends up costing ($5, $3, or $1), given the millions of gamers who are on the marketplace, an indie game studio could somewhat easily recoup that year's losses($100) from having Microsoft host their game by selling anywhere between 20 and 100 copies of their game. If the game is good, they should have little problem. If it stinks, they may have more problems. If no one is buying the game, they will eventually take it off, freeing up the marketplace for others to try selling their games, which may or may not be good.
Also, if you think that the above prices are extreme, consider that licensing the Unreal Engine 3 costs $350,000. And that doesn't come with hosting. Plus, paying 3% royalties on all sales of games made with the engine.
People need to figure out that not everything Microsoft does is horribly horribly evil. They are a company. They do things to make money. They are more evil than some companies, less evil than others. Yes, they have done some pretty shitty things in the past. That doesn't mean that everything they do in the future is done in the name of Satan.
Oh, and before anyone accuses me, no, I don't work for Microsoft. I am just open-minded enough to realize that they are a company, not a church. Business is brutal. Some people can't handle this, and prefer to remain in an idealistic fantasy world. I used to be in that world. I hated everything Microsoft. But then I grew up, and I dealt with reality. And I've been much happier and less stressed than I ever could have been had I remained a die-hard anti-Microsoft zealot.
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Re:Why bother? (Score:5, Informative)
All three major consoles charge to develop.
The Nintendo Wii development kit is $1,700.
The Sony PS3 development kit is $2,000 (non-Linux)
The XBox 360 development kit....$100
Depending on the price that the game ends up costing ($5, $3, or $1), given the millions of gamers who are on the marketplace, an indie game studio could somewhat easily recoup that year's losses($100) from having Microsoft host their game by selling anywhere between 20 and 100 copies of their game. If the game is good, they should have little problem. If it stinks, they may have more problems. If no one is buying the game, they will eventually take it off, freeing up the marketplace for others to try selling their games, which may or may not be good.
You're flatly wrong.
The Xbox 360 development kit is absolutely not $100. You can get a one-year membership to the XNA Creators Club, which allows you to submit games to the Xbox Indie Games service, for $99 USD. The actual development kit associated with this service is free, but you need to pay a $99 fee to actually use the publication channels for a year.
This is NOT a commercial development kit.
Moreover, as it relates to "commercial potential", Xbox Indie Games have been repeatedly grumbled about by prominent authors. The absolute upper cap for the single highest profile Indie Game is 10,000 unit sales. Developers in the price categories that even have a shot at that order of magnitude of sales are taking anywhere from 70 cents to 2.10 for their games. For commercial game production, Xbox Indie Games will NOT be profitable.
Actual commercial Xbox 360 development kits, used to develop Xbox Live Arcade games and Xbox 360 games, cost substantially more.
All of this information is available in a ten second Google tour of the subject. Why was parent modded +5?
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Paragraphs
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at the end of a paragraph. It's a pain, but it's what you have to do to format your text in a way that's readable.
Re:Why bother? (Score:4, Interesting)
Frankly, I can't believe you are even contemplating it.
The original Xbox remains, once modded, one of the best HTPCs you can get. You guys in the USA even get HD output! Unfortunately that feature was disabled in the European Xbox, but I doubt an Xbox could deal with full 1080p AVC-1 anyway. Still, if you want an SDTV media centre just use an old Xbox, there's nothing better.
I bought an original Xbox many moons ago after going round to a friends house and seeing him running Xbox Media Centre (XBMC), actually playing games on it was a secondary concern. Having said that, being able to install games on the HD was a very nice feature to have back then and I'm glad MS has replicated it with the 360. If they carry on at this rate then they'll catch up with the homebrew version of their last console by the next-next gen ;)
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The original Xbox remains, once modded, one of the best HTPCs you can get.
No it doesn't.
It lacks the horsepower to handle HD content.
XBMC was great, but it's limited by the hardware, and the 360 has thus far not seen a true successor to it.
Here is what you can do (Score:2, Funny)
Auction it on E-bay with the announcement that all proceeds will go to fight hunger in America
Well, (Score:3, Insightful)
Though, Xbox Linux is probably the way to go if you want that kind of thing.
Sell it (Score:5, Informative)
Its worth less to you than somebody who would use it for gaming.
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Agreed. I'm a moderate gamer and have a mac mini and a 360 under my tv. The 360 can do some video streaming from XP computers with media player 11 or Vista boxes but it's a pain in the butt. There's products like tversity that can do transcoding but it's so much more hassle than it's worth it's not even funny.
The short answer: the 360 has the hardware to be a great media center but Microsoft does not want to allow the hardware freedom for that to happen. No custom boot loader, no unsigned code, nothing. Use
Re:Sell it (Score:4, Informative)
The 360 can do some video streaming from XP computers with media player 11 or Vista boxes but it's a pain in the butt. There's products like tversity that can do transcoding but it's so much more hassle than it's worth it's not even funny.
What?! Streaming video files from your PC to your 360 is dead easy. Is the format DivX/XviD (most files)? Plays with no modification right from the dashboard. If not, set up the media center (can be a bit of a pain, but hardly the epic pain in the ass you claim), install Transcode 360 on your PC, select file, select the Transcode option, done.
If that's considered hard (where the majority of files play seamlessly, and the rest require only slightly more work), I want to know what the heck easy is. That must be something like "the device picks which files to play for me, and plays them without my intervention".
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I agree. Streaming network content to the xbox 360 is the easiest media centre I have ever had the pleasure to work with. I also happen to be one of the lucky ones who has bought 2 xbox 360s and never had either of them RROD in 2.5 years.
While the media centre offerings on XP can be a hassle to set up - Vista is only slightly less time consuming - the Win 7 setup is by far the easiest and fastest, even compared with 3rd party options like TVersity. With the appropriate codecs installed, simply add the folde
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Assuming the Xbox firmware is up to date, it does play divx files from a USB hard drive.
eBay it (or otherwise) (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:eBay it (or otherwise) (Score:4, Insightful)
You're not really fixing anything, are you? What you wrote is at best orthoganal to the real point and adds nothing more than a bad attempt at trolling to the discussion.
Grade: D-
Notes: See me after class
(The sooner this fucking stupid 'LOL FIXED THAT FOR YOU' meme ends the better, sorry)
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Git offa mah lawn!
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Git offa mah lawn!
YOU get off my lawn, 6-digit youngster!
(4-digit post in 4... 3... 2... 1...)
Re:eBay it (or otherwise) (Score:5, Funny)
Mommy, why are those old guys fighting on the lawn in their underwear?
Re:eBay it (or otherwise) (Score:4, Insightful)
You rang? And to be slightly helpful, he could trade the xbox for an older PS3 fat model that can run linux. It actually runs ubuntu fairly well.
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/me waits for rob to come on and tell us all off for messing up his blog.
Wishing I had of made an account when I first started viewing the site, didn't see a point back then (2-3 digit UID) and by the time I wanted to make a contribution 6 digit UID :/
Oh well, guess a 3 digit UID will be posting here shortly, I won't hold you up.
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Dangnabit, I don't quite meet your 4 digit, but I still want you off my lawn.
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Not 4 digits, but not born yesterday, either...
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no it's one better /. AC's have the UID of 666.
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Favorite nephew (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Favorite nephew (Score:4, Insightful)
Last I heard, that premise is patently false or as I like to put it, complete fucking bullshit.
Sony does actively fight to prevent anyone from having complete control of the hardware they rightfully own. PSP is the perfect example of this.
When Sony allows you to install Linux AND have complete access to all the hardware, let me know, and I will agree with your statements. Right now, you can install Linux. Yes, that is true. Do you really have access to all the hardware though? Yeah.... you don't.
Sure you can borrow my car and mess with all the radio station presets. Tires? Well, of course not! Don't be silly. I'll keep those at home.
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It's worth noting that the PS3 Slim doesn't support Linux either. So if you want your relish you'd have to buy the older model.
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as of Firmware 3.1, I can still install Linux on my big and bulky PS3.
Yes, Sony is fighting to prevent people to completely control their PSP and PS3, why? Online cheating, piracy, etc. It's not like they're keeping you out of the sacred land of home brew for really no good reason.
(it's working too, I'm thinking about either buying a spare PSP *just* for games that want FWs above 5.00(I haven't installed 5.50 GEN yet) or ditching CFW entirely. Gran Turismo Portable, you damned temptress.)
Re:Favorite nephew (Score:5, Insightful)
It is not a good reason. It is not ethical, moral, legal, etc. Sony does not rent me a PSP or PS3, they sell me one. I have had these arguments before, and quite simply, it is corruption in our legal system that allows them to continue.
The DMCA is absolute fucking bullshit. I have the absolute unequivocal right to completely own my hardware. To use a car analogy on Slashdot, there have been cases similar to this with auto manufacturers. All of the cases had been decided in the favor of the consumer. So why is electronics any different? They brought copyright infringement into it.
Without the DMCA it would be absolutely legal for you to put whatever you wanted onto a PSP or PS3 and Sony would have absolutely no recourse at all. However, since they used those cock-sucking whores in Congress to create a law that states my perfectly moral and ethical enjoyment of my own property circumvents Sony's bullshit, that I am somehow a criminal.
Last time I checked we can still own guns in this country. Well, by Sony's logic, they can take away my guns since it could possibly be used for something bad. That logic does not work, and thankfully, has not worked yet to deprive me of my right to bear arms.
This fallacious logic that is being used to deprive citizens of their rights and properties has to be fought at all costs. It has to stop.
Let me put in another way. I brutally raped some young girl because I was horny. "It's not like I did not do it for really no good reason"
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Last time I checked we can still own guns in this country. Well, by Sony's logic, they can take away my guns since it could possibly be used for something bad. That logic does not work, and thankfully, has not worked yet to deprive me of my right to bear arms.
I live in Australia. In the 90's some loon named Martin Bryant went ballistic with a few guns and shot up a bunch of people in Port Arthur Tasmania. Our illustrious Gruppenfuerer John Howard took it upon himself to ban "semi-automatic" rifles. Unfortuantely for us, he slipped a mickey and made it very very difficult to even own a .22 bolt action.
Sadly, over here that thought already holds true...
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Yes, a country without guns... That most be HORRIBLE!? There can be no high school shootings when there's no access to guns!
Yes, you're right. That's exactly why kitchen knives et al should be banned as well! Will someone please think of the children?!? http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/05/12/2568031.htm [abc.net.au]
http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/news-gossip-chat/26459-stabbing-mountain-creek-high-school.html [pomsinoz.com]
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P1-42523133.html [highbeam.com]
A gun is a tool exactly like a knife is a tool, except of course for those who gleefully eat meat and yet seriously have no idea where it comes from.
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Christ. You talk about fallacious logic but you really run face first into some of your own(the whole bit about Sony taking guns away should be enshrined as a shining example of what an improper analogy is, for instance).
I said that Sony does have good reasons why they would lock down a console like the PSP or the PS3 to keep out cheating and piracy. No where did I mention the DMCA.
Sony doesn't care whether or not YOU go through the hoops to tinker with your PSP. Just don't expect bug fixes, new firmware
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You say it is fallacious because you are twisting what they have done to suit your argument, flat out ignoring it, are just can't figure it out.
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My analogies are perfect. Sony is preventing me from having full unfettered access to my system so that I can use it without their control and software. That it is not something I am making up. Your "good" reasons are anything but.
Saying Sony will take your guns away was stupid. Really. really. stupid.
I'm not sure if you're an idiot or a troll or whatever. If you're not a troll, then I hope in good faith you understand the next following statements. Sony is in business to sell games and consoles and make money, not general purpose computing machines.
It's no shock to anyone when you, or some other OSS, or Free Software or whatever movement zealot screams this. They lock down their games console so that way some schmuck with a HDD
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On top of that, given that the new model PS3s don't allow linux at all, this seems particularly laughable. Apparently the hardware change was too radical to keep Linux installed but the rest of their software doesn't skip a beat? Sure....
Penny Arcade Charity (Score:5, Insightful)
Penny-arcade.com has a charity called "Child's Play" which provides hospitalized children with toys and electronic entertainment. If I were at a loss for what to do with a new video game console, that would be the way to go for me.
Congratulations on your good fortune.
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Re:Penny Arcade Charity (Score:5, Interesting)
Also, don't forget that the XBox is considered income and will be taxed as such. It could cost you up to 100 dollars to keep it or sell it (assuming you do your taxes honestly - I believe here in the US the IRS has been known to go after people who don't declare their prizes). So, if you sell it you only get 100-150 dollars - not too much.
If you give it to charity it is no longer income, and won't be taxed. I think this is the best way to go - the IRS can't tax karma ;)
Re:Penny Arcade Charity (Score:5, Funny)
Yet. No doubt they're working on it.
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No IRS exceptions for prizes. (Score:5, Informative)
Nope, any prize must be claimed. See Publication 525 [irs.gov], page 34. The example given is a $50 prize.
Report on form 1040, line 21.
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She's dead. Jim. Ain't karma a bitch!
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Your pretty much right. I know a preacher that got hit on taxes because he would take a pay form the church to get insurance coverage but donate the entire pay back to the church. He did that for about 10 years and all the sudden an audit came along and screwed that up for the same reasons you explained. Once you receive it, it's income. What you do with it later only counts when the tax law allows it. Now he just donates anything in excess of his taxes back to the church. He lives from a pension from a nor
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Jeez, you don't have to brag about it. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Jeez, you don't have to brag about it. (Score:5, Funny)
My thoughts intrigue you, and you wish to subscribe to my newsletter
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Two chicks at one time man. (Score:5, Funny)
Two chicks at one time...
Re:Jeez, you don't have to brag about it. (Score:5, Funny)
How is this even a question? (Score:2, Insightful)
Use it for casual gaming gift it, or sell it (Score:5, Insightful)
Seriously, you're trying to use a proverbial hammer to saw a tree. An XBox 360 is the wrong tool for anything but gaming, which is what it was built for. Therefore trying to run Linux on it or do other cool stuff is a waste of the machine UNLESS you're into that cool stuff to start with and THAT is the game. Given that you're still wondering how to use it, the answer is simple. Use it for gaming. Or sell it and let someone use it for gaming. Or give it away and let someone use it for gaming. As a media center, there are better options - if you sell it put the money towards buying one. As a linux PC, an XBox isn't the best solution. Sell it and buy a nice Intel or AMD based machine.
The world's full of interesting geeky stuff to do. One of the least interesting things you can do is to waste time forcing a machine to do something it's not designed for. Especially since you'll be using it not writing the software to do it in the first place. Life's too short.
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Huh. Really?
I guess by that logic McGuyver was one of most boring shows on the fucking planet, and Mr. T from A-Team was the lest interesting man on television. I pity the foo.
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I guess by that logic McGuyver was one of most boring shows on the fucking planet, and Mr. T from A-Team was the lest interesting man on television. I pity the foo.
Knowing things about common household chemicals was very interesting, but when MacGyver started saving whales and diffusing nuclear weapons with duct tape I must admit I stopped watching. (Years later my wife and I, who both watched the show as kids, bought the episodes on DVD. For her its' more about remembering time spent watching with her gran
Re:Use it for casual gaming gift it, or sell it (Score:4, Funny)
Dear God. Hand in your geek card NOW.
I could not disagree MORE. A-Team was about how this group of expertly trained ex-military personnel kept constantly getting trapped in spaces full of parts, tools, various types of fuel and explosives, and other various materials. That coupled with Mr. T's magical tools which just coincidentally looked like a bunch of gold jewelery on his neck, allowed them to break through the various walls comprising their temporary prisons with a different death machine each week.
That show was a gold mine for little geeks growing up that have been tinkering and hacking away since then. It was definitely more about the "tinkering" than the "action". Any true card carrying geek on Slashdot knows this.
Come on. Hand it over.........
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The world's full of interesting geeky stuff to do. One of the least interesting things you can do is to waste time forcing a machine to do something it's not designed for.
And here I though that was the MOST interesting thing to do, and one of the most geeky. Guess I've been wasting all my free time! I should find a hobby that's actually interesting.
If you've got a big screen, sell it and get a PS3 (Score:3, Insightful)
HTPC/Media centers are a pain in the a$$ and streaming video is for kids with 22" screens and huge pipes. Get a PS3, it's not perfect but it's an excellent blu-ray player, will stream stuff, and you won't have to spend an hour fiddling with it every other time you use it. Use it with TVersity or the like for more flexibility on streaming. Or if you do have just a small screen, keep the 360 and stream all you want.
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Why is a PS3 better at streaming to a large screen than an Xbox? Oh right, it's not. XBox will be doing instant-start 1080p streaming soon, and does HD Netflix now...unlike the PS3. The PS3 is quieter, and obviously the blu-ray is good if you want to play discs, but I'd pick the 360 for streaming. Well actually I use Tivos, more family-friendly interface.
XBMC = Xbox Media Center (Score:2)
Isn't that what XBMC [xbmc.org] is for?
Re:XBMC = Xbox Media Center (Score:5, Informative)
XBMC was originally made for hacked classic Xboxes. It doesn't run on the Xbox 360. While it was great at the time, the old Xbox didn't support HD output which limits it's use these days.
XBMC has however been ported to run on Windows, Linux and Macintosh operating systems and does support HD output on these systems. This makes for a pretty good home theater PC setup and is more flexible than the built in stuff on Xbox 360.
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Indeed. It sounds like he's in the market for XBMC and not an Xbox 360.
To make life really easy, he could see the xbox on ebay, the use the cash to buy an appleTV. The USB installer will have XBMC running in a flash, and, AIUI, the AppleTV is at least good for 720p.
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Short answer, If you're a 'plop down some cash and be done with it' type of guy. Get the Acer Aspire Revo AR1600-U910H at newegg for $199US. [newegg.com]
Long answer, get hat ever the hell makes you happy, Just make sure that it runs an Nvidia video card that supports VDPAU and you're in the money.
There are nightly .deb builds here: http://sshcs.com/xbmc/ [sshcs.com] (Also available for other platforms). There are a ton of tutorials available on xbmc.org.
Most people are fond of the ION series, it's a 9300 series GeForce paired with
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That's for Xbox1 (and now Win/Mac/Linux), not the 360. The Xbox1 does make a great media center, but although some HD capability is claimed, it's damn near useless for anything above 480p. There are also legal issues with XBMC on an Xbox1 running natively (the native/original port is compiled with the Xbox SDK and therefore distributing or having binaries is copyright infringement). Running Linux on an Xbox1 is also pretty tight because it only has 64MB of RAM. I upgraded mine to 128MB and managed to get th
Hospital (Score:5, Insightful)
Give it to a local children's hospital. Cheer up some kids that could use it.
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Give it to a local children's hospital. Cheer up some kids that could use it.
preferably with a copy of TRAUMA CENTER: UNDER THE KNIFE
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RROD class action (Score:2)
Simple. Wait 'til it RROD's, hit up that class action suit, then... Profit!
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He might need to actually play games on it to get it to red ring (god forbid!)
Lets see... (Score:5, Insightful)
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I just broke my XBox 360 and of course warranty just expired. So I would be happy to relieve the submitter from his problems!
I say... (Score:3, Interesting)
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I'll second this. Look, maybe it's not as sexy as having a Linux based media hub or something, but I've been using my XBox 360 as an extender for a Vista MediaCenter PC and it works great. There's a ton of great games for it, and it still spends many hours a day acting as the prime interface for our living room media needs.
It's the Media Center Extender for a media PC [Vista] with Dual HDTV OTA tuners, I can stream Netflix directly [with XBox Live Gold], I can stream my XVID+AC3 movies with full surround fr
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ebay (Score:2, Insightful)
ebay
Simple. (Score:2)
Blow it up.
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Exactly.. send it to Mythbusters and ask them to prove or disprove the myth that the Xbox 360 has no shrapnel when detonated with an internal detonator while in a microwave. :P
Popcorn Hour (Score:2, Interesting)
re: Media Center (Score:4, Interesting)
I have a friend who modded an Xbox to make it a media center and it is awesome. I went the PC route and made a central PC server and stream to my TVs with a d-link set top box.
Here is my experience. I used to get movies and watch movies. Boy, were those the days. Now I get movies, rip movies, convert movies to avi or mp4, and move huge files around (very slowly). The last drive I bought was a 1.5 terabyte, and I'm thinking about getting another one...because what else do you freaking back up a 1.5 terabyte drive to but another drive? And my UPnP server was on Linux, but the box was dual boot, so if someone was in windows, we couldn't watch streaming video...so I just built a new server to fix that issue.
When I finally get to sit down and actually watch a movie, it isn't uncommon for me to get up in the middle of it and kick off another DVD folder to be converted.
If I went over to my friend's house to actually play a game on his Xbox media center, we would probably have to wait an hour and a half to play something, because he would probably be FTPing a big movie to it at the time!
And hey, I just ordered a mod chip and picked up an Xbox so he could build me one. Why? I don't know. It's just cool.
Version (Score:3, Interesting)
You need to know the version you get before seeing if it is hackable, chances are a new xbox will have a kernel > 4548. However if by some miracle you hack it, your best bet is to then install a minimal ubuntu/debian install with mythTV or something related as your GUI.
Obviously... (Score:2)
Why would you need to ask this question? (Score:2, Insightful)
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Hmm (Score:2)
Youtube viral video! (Score:2)
Or just dump it on eBay or Craigslist. Sheesh. I weep for our future.
Could be worse. You could have won a game. (Score:3, Informative)
I went over to EA for a technical talk once and "won" a raffle for a copy of EA Golf for the XBox 360. (It was more like "second prize is two copies of EA Golf".)
I have a suggestion (Score:2)
Sending you my mailing address, make sure you bubble wrap it. Don't want any scratches on my new XBox 360.
Same thing happend to me (Score:2)
Donate It (Score:5, Insightful)
Give it to your local childrens' hospital. Be a gent and throw in extra controllers and an E for everyone game like Lego Indiana Jones, Lego Star Wars, or Viva Pinata.
I know what you can do with it... (Score:4, Funny)
Where's that goatse image when you need it...
Will it blend? (Score:4, Funny)
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The Xbox 360 can stream tv/movies/music using a Zune pass [zune.net], tv/movies using a Netflix [netflix.com] subscription, and it plays CDs/DVDs. You don't need to hack it at all.
Don't you need an Xbox gold account (thus pay monthly to MS) in order to use Netflix? If I was using it to just stream media to my TV, I surely would not pay extra each month just to use my Netflix account.
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If its a brand new 360, it will already have the latest not-yet-hackable firmware on it.