Ask Slashdot: Advice For Getting Tech Career Back On Track 232
First time accepted submitter msamp writes "After the dotcom bubble burst so long ago,when tech jobs were so scarce, I went back to school and finished my PhD in Physics. They lied — there really is no shortage of scientists. Before the downturn I was a product manager for home networking equipment. Since getting the degree I have been program/project manager for small DoD and NASA instrumentation programs. I desperately want back into network equipment product management, but my networking tech skills aren't up to date. I find networking technology absolutely trivial and have been retraining on my own, but hiring managers see the gap and the PhD and run screaming. I'm more than willing to start over in network admin but can't even get considered for that. Suggestions?"
Apply at a university (Score:5, Informative)
My IT department is full of people with tons of degrees doing various IT tasks.
Re:Apply at a university (Score:5, Interesting)
It can even be a bonus in other ways- one of our newer guys in datasystems teaches CS at a local community college on the side, and ended up recruiting one of his best students directly into an open position- he already knew what he was capable of.
Don't tell them about your PHD. (Score:2)
Just tell them you have a degree and don't highlight your PHD or education. They will find out about it if they absolutely care but if they don't they wont.
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No, this is horrible advice. Academic IT work is a drag.
Just kidding. Academic IT work has been the best job I've had in my career so far. I'd go back in a heartbeat. Considering I was working in one of the best possible environments for an IT geek (highly exclusive math/science environment surrounded by brilliant, stimulating, interesting people who were much smarter than I - in a broader socially diverse culture), I doubt I'll ever get such an opportunity again.
If you can, do it. Just don't expect the wor
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Start your own business (Score:5, Insightful)
That way your qualifications won't matter and won't get in the way
Re:Start your own business (Score:5, Insightful)
A friend of mine has a PhD in Chemical Engineering and an MS in Computer Science. He always takes the risk and omits the PhD as he was getting no love from employers otherwise.
Re:Start your own business (Score:5, Insightful)
Omit but then own up to having it when they ask you about the gap at an interview. Make it clear that you got it due to an economic down turn in tech after the dot com bust but your real interest was and is in networking/whatever your real interest is. Honesty is always the best policy but do it selectively.
Incidentally tell them you left it out as it isn't relevant to your current work desires.
Re:Start your own business (Score:5, Interesting)
Incidentally tell them you left it out as it isn't relevant to your current work desires.
I often "leave out" that I worked at a grocery store in my sophomore year of high school. If you're so young you can't fill up a one page resume, you have to fill it up the blank page with something, anything, but over the age of 30 most probably have far too much resume fodder to fill the page.
Now, if you were applying to become a physics instructor at a high school and lied about not having a phd then there's some issues, but networking hardware? I think you're OK there, at least morally and ethically.
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I'm on my third career-relevant jobs (including an internship) since graduating from college in 2010. The only time I go back further than those three jobs in my employment history is when they ask for it - then I'll include being an RA in college, being a dishwasher/delivery driver summers during college and highschool, etc. Even then, I almost never go back to my first "real" job at age 14. Every interview I've been at, they've been far more interested in projects (or even hobbies) I've done relevant to t
Re:Start your own business (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm on my third career-relevant jobs (including an internship) since graduating from college in 2010. The only time I go back further than those three jobs in my employment history is when they ask for it - then I'll include being an RA in college, being a dishwasher/delivery driver summers during college and highschool, etc. Even then, I almost never go back to my first "real" job at age 14. Every interview I've been at, they've been far more interested in projects (or even hobbies) I've done relevant to the position rather than every little bit of job and education history I have. I often omit the networking course I did during high school too just because it's small cheese compared to my more recent history and just wastes valuable space I could use for listing projects I've done more recently instead.
Third job in less than 3 years? Wow. Why the high turnover rate? That would scare me more than a resume with a PH.D on it.
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An internship which ended early 2010, two years at one place, and then a job switch. That's not too bad.
Job periods of about a year? Bad.
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Not everyone has the opportunity to be picky about employment. You find a job that pays the bills (or at least puts you in the ballpark of your preferred field and capabilities), you take it - even if you know it's a horrible fit. You need the work, it's not minimum wage, and they need an employee. Employers expect to be able to walk over their future employee indefinitely, so they want someone 'stable'. In this market, they can be a bit more picky, but they're (IMO) self-selecting for mediocrity in the pro
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Re:Start your own business (Score:5, Funny)
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Really unless you are nationally known for doing some horrible crime at the school you got your PhD, I can't imagine any moral problem with not including a PhD that you actually did get. Moral problems could certainly arise from pretending you have a PhD that you actually don't have, but pretending to have done less with your life.. who gets hurt?
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but pretending to have done less
That's where I'd draw the line, if the asked if he has a PHD he's pretty much obligated to say yes and therefore get disqualified for employment because its a resume stain.
My current boss has no idea I have expert level skill at stacking onions on a produce cooler at a food store. For some odd reason it's never come up in discussion, and its not "pretending" for me to never mention it. It certainly has nothing even remotely to do with my current job. None the less if he asked me point blank if I knew how
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Simply tell the truth, that you went back to school to further your education. You don't have to mention that you got a degree, its not like it was a court imposed sentence.or anything. It is entirely optional like scout merit badges or a black belt, or something.
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No, in this case, it means editing.
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Unless omitting something can be seen to have an immediate negative effect on whomever you are talking to then its not lying.
Not telling someone you have a PHD in physics for a network admin job is the same as not telling them you won a small scholarship for essay writing in high school. Neither of them has much relevance to the position you are applying to.
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Nope.
Lying is saying one thing had happened but in fact another thing had happened.
Omission is not lying.
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Yeah, I'm going to have to agree with this. The stinging irony is that your PhD is going to scare folks off despite that it demonstrates that you've got quite the noggin on your shoulders. Unless you're willing to omit it from your resume (which some MAY consider lying by omission) along with some creative verbage about what you were doing during that time, doing your own thing as the parent suggests may be the path of least resistance.
A friend of mine has a PhD in Chemical Engineering and an MS in Computer Science. He always takes the risk and omits the PhD as he was getting no love from employers otherwise.
It is a sad state of affairs when one of the most valuable (and costly) degrees out there is shunned by employers. I mean what in the FUCK is going on these days when someone is looked down upon for dedicating that kind of time and effort, especially to see it through to completion.
Please don't start a business (Score:5, Insightful)
Not everybody has what it takes to make a successful business. And starting a company because you can't find a job won't help. If you can't find a job, hardly you will find clients.
Re:Please don't start a business (Score:5, Insightful)
Not everybody has what it takes to make a successful business. And starting a company because you can't find a job won't help. If you can't find a job, hardly you will find clients.
More to the point, OP is interested in networking tech rather than business management. If he started his own business and it was actually successful he's either have to pay someone else to be his boss or give up networking tech yet again to manage the business.
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Actually, you can do all of those as a single-person business. Your customers are those large businesses you mentioned. They want the skills but often don't want to hire. This is the way I make my living. I lead and work with large teams but I'm self employed.
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My boss at my last job owned the business, but he hired someone to take care of the business aspects that he didn't care for or didn't have the skills to do. In the end, he was still the boss, he ran the company but he also stayed immersed in the tech enough to his satisfaction. Of course, some people just need a boss to guide them even if they're great at the actually technical skills - in that case, starting a business won't work unless you grow it just enough to sell it with a clause keeping you employed
Re:Start your own business (Score:5, Interesting)
After a 12 year Hiatus (I got laid off in 2001) I'm finally getting back to IT, I start a new job monday, it pays a bundle, wife is happy, kids will have benefits..So what did I do in those 12 years?
I worked at a karaoke bar in San Jose. My friends and I made a karaoke jukebox, tried to market it to karaoke companies (failed miserably, they're like the music companies battling technology in the 90's) It was great, it was fun for a while but no benefits, low pay, and an abusive owner finally made me start taking the steps to get out of it.
2010 I tried running for city council. Lost but it got my foot in the door with local politicians. Last campaign season, I helped one candidate win by using a combination of twilio/openvbx for robocalls (at cost.. $0.02) 40,000 robocalls. Most candidates pay between $0.79 to $0.83 a call, so I consider it to be a pretty huge contribution.
During my interview I was totally open and honest about my last 12 years. Why didn't I W2 for the last 12 years? Why are these gaps here in my employment? Lucky for me my hiring manager had been in a similar situation... The entire company was really impressed with all my political work in the last year. (In my new role, I'll be doing IT stuff in a board room, so knowing how to mind your political p's and q's to make a good initial impression was super important)
When I was first laid off in 2001, I never dreamed of doing any kind of volunteer work or activism. I was in my late 20's, and too self centered to give a shit. I thought my salary was my worth, and working for free/volunteer was beneath me. Took a few years of eating humble pie in a karaoke bar to adjust that attitude.
So my advice, find some local volunteer things to work on that appeal to you. See how you can wrangle your tech knowledge in there. Me? I just happened to love all the skullduggery and drama involved with politics. YMMV.
Re:Start your own business (Score:5, Funny)
I helped one candidate win by using a combination of twilio/openvbx for robocalls
Go fuck yourself.
Re:Start your own business (Score:5, Insightful)
This. Or just cut the pretense and make real money as a black hat.
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Hell yes. Not just a robocaller, but a karaoke robocaller. What's the new gig? Nigerian spammer?
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Osuofia - I Go Chop Your Dollar [youtube.com]
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People are ignoring or not willing to admit, but politics is where the real big money is.
Hid your PhD (Score:5, Insightful)
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I'm not so sure that is a good idea, either. I was told, albeit a while back, that not including any past jobs and/or education is lying. It might be a lie of omission, but the job apps I've seen, asked for all past positions and education. I'd suggest speaking to a an expert in the field before excluding things.
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Hiring managers rarely see the app and few that have it actually look at it and those few that actually look at it usually have made up their mind about you by then (they look at it for stuff like salary history and perhaps reference checks).
Do mention the PhD verbally in your interview with the hiring manager (however, you probably should not mention it, unless the topic comes up, with any other interviewers). This way, the manager
Re:Hide your PhD (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not so sure that is a good idea, either. I was told, albeit a while back, that not including any past jobs and/or education is lying. It might be a lie of omission, but the job apps I've seen, asked for all past positions and education. I'd suggest speaking to a an expert in the field before excluding things.
Hmmm.. I really think it depends on the situation. Let's take a look:
Omitting that you working as a part time drug dealer in college... hiding something
Omitting that you have a respectable Ph.D... your choice
Omitting that you helped manage the importation of underage prostitutes from southeast asia... very specific and also hiding something
Omitting your religion, marital status, sexual preference... your choice
Omitting that your Ph.D. actually came from a sketchy online university... hiding something
It appears omitting something out that could be potentially damaging is wrong. But omitting an achievement or otherwise acceptable detail that isn't the employers business is just fine.
Re:Hide your PhD (Score:5, Insightful)
"Omitting your religion, marital status, sexual preference... your choice"
Technically, yes, but it's really not a good idea to volunteer this kind of information, unless it's incidentally implied by something else on your work history or work-related hobbies. So, if you were the IT manager for your local coven or organized monthly flying spaghetti dinners for the homeless, go ahead and say that, but don't simply put "member of the Church of the Sub-Genius" on your resumé. In the US it is illegal for them to ask that, and it is legally touchy for them to know that, because it opens them up to accusations of bias. It can come across as blackmail, saying "If you don't hire me, I'll sue you for illegal discrimination" or trying to curry favor with someone who has the same faith. At the least it shows that you don't understand what's appropriate information in a job application.
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Most places I've worked would instantly toss resumes that explicitly mentioned anything like that - DOB, marital status, religion, even a photo.
Having a policy of rejecting anyone who volunteers information that could be used as grounds for a discrimination claim is apparently the safest approach.
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OTOH, I'd say it's more interesting to puruse academic career,
Isn't the situation something like for every 10 phd granted, there are only 3 academic phd level openings, depending on area of study of course? The vast majority are going to have to activate the backup plan. Its very much like professional sports.
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That's the main problem, yes. In CS it's slightly better, because there's a constant outflux of PhDs to industry: every time you see one of those announcements about Google hiring a professor away from CMU, that's one more academic job freed up. But in physics the imbalance is much worse, and slogging away in a series of postdocs hoping for something to open up is the usual course.
Re:Hid your PhD (Score:5, Interesting)
3 academic jobs for every 10 PhDs granted? So the academic job market has gotten better, then? (:-)
Back in the early 90s, a friend of mine tried to get a job as a physics professor, after doing electronics-related physics in industry for a while. First try got him into the top 3 of 600 applicants for small state college, and the next year (when candidate#1 had flaked out or gotten a better offer), he finally got the position. Paid dirt, and was totally out in the sticks (which did at least mean he could afford to live there.) On the other hand, back in the mid-80s, physics PhDs were getting jobs as quants on Wall Street, and the military-industrial complex was still hiring rocket scientists, so there weren't quite as many applicants for the academic jobs.
Re:Hide your PhD (Score:3, Informative)
As much as I hate to say that, hiding a part of your education from resume (like not mentioning your PhD) is a pretty common method of getting employment. Of course with lower salary. They run screaming just because they think that they would need to pay more, because you had PhD.
My perspective as potential employee
I'm a PhD candidate (Computer Engineering) at a top 5 engineering school, and I would say that through the process of looking for full-time employment, the opposite has been happening to me.
Employers see the PhD and their expectations rise exponentially; they expect you to walk on water and work miracles during the interview process even though the position you have applied for only requires a MS. Ironically, an MS graduate would have an easier time getting the
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You do that to ride out the "Great Economic Tsunami of 2009 - current" until the better jobs come along. You still need to eat and your bills are due.
There are people who are being deceived of getting a PhD, hope the following site enlighten their mind:
http://100rsns.blogspot.com/ [blogspot.com]
Volunteer, or School. (Score:2)
Which means more school (to prove you are current) or volunteering in a relevant role (to prove you're capable).
Otherwise, you start back at the bottom. With your education level, there aren't many good horizontal transfer options.
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1. Get PhD in Physics (Score:4, Funny)
3. Profit!
Some suggestions for 2: Invent cold fusion. Transmute lead into gold. Create "death ray" and get some nation to pay a ransom. What? All those are practical physics and you're a theoretical physicist? Um... Ok... Get an entry level job as a junior web programmer and be sure to let everyone on your team know how much better than them you are because you have a PhD in physics. And insist that they call you "Doctor".
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Join a startup (Score:4, Insightful)
Start-ups love over-qualified people willing to do meager tasks for nothing.
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This. The security isn't good and benefits may be sketchy but it'll be fun while it lasts and you'll learn more about business than you would at a big corp. Then you will have experience to start your own.
Research? (Score:5, Insightful)
So maybe first you should do some research on the subject. But I give you the non-tldr version:
If you want me to hire you, you have to show me that you are worth it. How can you do that? Work on a project (open source/your own/whatever) in your spare time and bring it to the interview. Without anything to show, I'm sorry, no tech job for you.
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I've seen this work
Another path is to keep trying to do something with the PhD. I successfully made the transition from corrupt NASA/DOD contracting to an industry job that uses my education a little bit, so its not impossible.
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There are open source network HARDWARE projects?
Do a stint as system admin for a lab? (Score:2, Interesting)
Probably I'm just clueless about what you mean by 'networking technology'. Would it help your resumé at all, though, to show a couple of years managing the network for, say, a physics department? That's a job for which your current resumé would seem to be perfect, and it would give you ample opportunity to brush up old skills while on the job.
Extending your association with academia might just deepen the stench as far as industry is concerned. But maybe, while managing a department network, you co
Networking and/or tailoring the resume? (Score:3, Informative)
Something similar happened to me. In my case, I was promoted to tech management after having been a lead engineer for years. I didn't realize what I was getting into, hated it, and bailed out after 5 months. Unfortunately, the company I was working for has a one-way track up the hierarchy, and stepping back into doing actual work is just not done, so I had to change jobs. I didn't have a ton of contacts in industry or with former customers yet, so I did the whole cold call/Monster/Dice crap shoot. With my resume showing the management experience, I got very few calls, and those that did interview me had very strong reservations about hiring me for a tech job since they wondered why I wouldn't be looking for a management role.
(Short Answer: If I actually wanted to work solving kindergarteners' problems all day, I'd be a tenured kindergarten teacher and never have to look for work again. :-) )
So anyway, I pulled the management experience off, and left the (reasonably impressive) technical accomplishments intact, and the calls started coming in a little faster. It took a while, but I got a job because of this.
This experience did hammer home how important it is to keep in touch with your former colleagues and customers. Especially if you're an IT services person like me, there's no shortage of companies you can jump to if you have someone there who remembers you and can get you an interview without going through the mess.
Side question: I was thinking of doing the same thing you were -- I have a BS in chemistry and was thinking of a Ph. D. -- is the employment situation for scientists that bad?? Given how crazy the world is now, a permanent job seems like a good idea even if I have to give up some of the salary gains.
I think there's definitely room for well trained, scientific-minded people in IT. It's not all just button pushing, and most of my colleagues over the years have had absolute crap for troubleshooting skills. Now, if only we could start a professional services company around that idea. "Anonymous Coward Consulting Group -- We're not Accenture!" :-)
Look. Most HR types are Vogon-like idiots. (Score:5, Funny)
Not actually evil, but bad-tempered, bureaucratic, officious and callous. In the USA, they're frequently female and quietly but intensely crazy. Forget anything rational when dealing with them. Go around them. Get your resume' to a thinking person with actual skills, common sense and the ability to do arithmetic. That person may be able to slide you around blockage of HR. Get in as a consultant or a temp and make them dependent on you. Threaten to walk if you don't get hired.
As in most of the rest of America now, working through the system doesn't work. Adjust your thinking accordingly.
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You do what that makes you sound like, right?
Re:Look. Most HR types are Vogon-like idiots. (Score:5, Funny)
That's the tell him to way, coward!
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Overly optimistic?
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I don't see anything wrong with making sexist generalizations; the fact is men and women are different, so while not all members of one sex will follow a particular generalization, some generalizations really apply far more to one sex than the other. For instance, how many football-obsessed fans like these [flickr.com] will be women versus men? While there might be a small number of stupid female football fans, they're a rarity, but there's no shortage of stupid male football fans (or other sports fans for that matter
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This. Forget that it's moderated "Funny"; it's true.
My experience is that unless you've got a perfect resume, your best option to get in the door somewhere is through word of mouth - in the back door, so to speak. This has been true of every desirable job (and interview) I've had. The places which make it impossible to get a job this way (through overly staunch bureaucratic), requiring you to go through HR, are vertically integrated hellholes which encourage mediocrity and sameness. Even if you get the job,
Network Virtualization (Score:3)
If you've out of the game for a while, make sure to stress knowledge of network virtualization in addition to traditional/legacy networking. It's a good time as any to get in because there are relatively few people that are experienced in that aspect. It's not that it's particularly new, but new enough that most enterprises haven't completely adopted it (outside of cloud providers).
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lol
Listen to your tone (Score:5, Informative)
I suspect it is attitude that is as much the problem as anything. While some employers do worry about over qualification, the tone of your question says "I think I'm the smartest person in the room and I'm going to be a nightmare to manage." Even in tech soft skills are hugely important.
Thinking there was a shortage of physics PhDs shows a lack of listening and research (I say this as a physics faculty), the oversubsciption rate has been huge for ages. So I suspect this attitude (if I'm not misreading the post) has been there for a while.
So you might really consider some classes in people skills—how to interview, how to listen and work in a team. These classes can be found in many community colleges and can be quite helpful (don't dismiss the CC classes, they can be excellent). Then I'd look for an opportunity to show teamwork and make sure you check the attitude at the door when you interview.
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And convincing them that he can do the job without being a problem. Often (not always) PhDs are considered (or consider themselves) really good at stuff because of their credentials. Even stuff outside their major. In the genera
Roll your own (Score:5, Interesting)
Stop thinking that someone else has a job for you. Start creating jobs for someone else. If you're over the age of 30, your community needs you to create jobs, not take them.
You've got an interesting world of experience. Cross-industry experience no less. Start your own company -- don't let the big word fool you, it's meaningless. You'll pay far fewer taxes, you'll be able to get free and very inexpensive employees from schools, co-ops, interns, neighbours, and anyone willing to "start at the bottom".
It needn't be a big company. Just you and a physical assitant is all you need. And you want the physical assistant a) so you can shift your business into a different path to be flexible in five years and b) so you can worry about business admin stuff like client relations and invoicing and c) because someone should cover for you when you're on a beach somewhere enjoying life.
Clients don't tend to ask for credentials -- I own and run a programming company, and no client has ever asked. They ask about skills. You've got 'em.
And since it's your business, you can get just about any client by offering to do the work and not collect any money until the end. It's only a risk if you don't know what you're doing. If you do, you manage to buy a new client with nothing more than delaying payment by a month or two. That's effectively free client acquisition.
Dude, just dive in. Expect to pay $2'000 per year on accountants and lawyers, just to get it off your plate and so your government talks to them instead of you. You don't need insurance unless you're punching holes into walls -- and those premiums aren't a big deal either.
Get decent business cards, and give them to your neighbours. Each of them works in an office building somewhere. And each of their employers needs networking done at some point.
Take small jobs, they turn into big jobs. Take small clients, they turn into big clients. Take clients with bounded projects that have a start and an end. They'll become your best repeat business. Don't spend more than 25% of your typical month on a single client (with many exceptions of course).
Small business helps small business. Talk to other small business owners. Even your competitors. It doesn't hurt my business to help my small-business competitors. It just improves both of our small businesses vs the many many others. If you've got no one to talk to, talk to me.
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On this:
* You don't need insurance, but get it anyway. It's a cheap way to sleep soundly. There are a lot of money hungry bastards out there who will sue you for their own shortcomings surrounding project "incompleteness".
* Don't be picky. It doesn't matter if you can't do everything really well, as long as you can do it. Bill accordingly. You can eat steak every night after you've got enough money to be discerning.
* RELATIONSHIPS. Find and use people you know to help you, either as subcontractors or as act
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Then you don't work in an office building. He's said that he's highly skilled with something. That something is used in most office buildings. There are hundreds of office buildings each with hundreds of offices each with dozens of desks in my city alone. Each of those desks has an employee who lives in or near that city. I'm sure some of them are his neighbours.
As a small business, he doesn't need a thousand clients. He needs three. Maybe ten. Any small business takes two years to get rolling. If y
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Oh come on. If you're a technical person, you know exactly what "extremely rusty" means. It means that you're in the 98th percentile, and not the 99th. It means that you've lost confidence in the skills that you used to have, that'll come back in three days of trying.
But more importantly, it means that no matter how many times he mucks up on day one, he'll be able to fix it on day two. So if a project that should take a week, takes two weeks, and he only charges for the one, then it'll take a few months
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As someone whose done it more than five times in his life, I can tell you that there really are only three skills that one needs to be an entrepreneur of a small business.
The third one is a self-motivated attitude, which doesn't really count because it amounts to wanting to do what you're doing, and that's why you started in the first place.
The second is to realize that you don't need to jump all of the hurdles at once. You can solve one problem at a time as you encounter them. And shifting your business
Sorry... the PhD. screws you. (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm afraid I have to agree with the consensus here. The big issue is the doctorate. In my experience, very nearly the only people who will accept someone with a Ph.D. behind his / her name is a university. And universities will be wary as well, they will think you expect to go tenure track, and you've already found how limited those slots are. You would probably have better luck with the employment if you dropped the Ph.D. off your resume; that's a bigger problem IMHO than the gap.
The only alternative to the uni IT departments suggested earlier would be consulting; look for firms of consulting engineers, they like to be able to list Ph.D.s on their corporate CVs. I don't recommend going into business for yourself; that takes a vary particular mindset, and it's often a very thin existence.
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Actually, that's not true. Some large companies are looking for PhDs. But these are companies that are looking for extremely qualified tech jobs. Google, Intel, IBM are all looking for PhD. Since the question mentionned networking, I'd be surprised if Cisco does not look for some PhDs as well. The best networking technician I ever knew had a PhD in physics. Companies producing Infiniband technology (mellanox) certainly are interested in PhDs.
One of the problem is that the "asker" has the "wrong" PhD. I thin
You need to work on communications skills (Score:5, Insightful)
The narrative you post is extremely hard to follow and makes little sense. Let's try to decipher.
You lost your job when then dot com bubble burst and went back to school. You finished a PhD in Physics. You then found out your were sold a bill of goods about jobs of people with PhDs in Physics and there is some sort of glut.
Then you have been doing some sort of project management for DoD and NASA. Now is where things get really weird.
" I desperately want back into network equipment product management, but my networking tech skills aren't up to date."
Pulling that apart, you are talking about a job more on the business side than the technology side of the business. Technical skills are important in product management, but so is a head for business. That could be one reason that people don't "get' you -- they see that you went back to school and spent time and money on getting a PhD in Physics. You didn't go back to school to get an advanced degree in CS, EE, or a MBA. You went back for Physics and now you are trying to get into product marketing. But things get a little weirder.
"I find networking technology absolutely trivial"
I really, sincerely hope this is a typo. Finding something "trival" has considerable negative connotations to it, and if you say that to a hiring manager, they are going to think you are going to be just biding your time with their "trivial" nonsense product and looking to move onto something more interesting the moment it shows up. It would be better to say that you enjoy certain challenges or explain what you find interesting rather than saying something is "trivial".
And then finally,
"I'm more than willing to start over in network admin"
I don't see that you need to move to this, you need to concentrate and present the skills you have and exercise in program/project management and previous skills to get into some sort of networking gig. But you do need to address some rather good questions a hiring manager would have, specifically:
- Why did you get a doctorate in Physics when you were interested in product management?
- What excites you about networking and product management?
I also highly recommend that all job seekers thoroughly read and use "What Color is Your Parachute?". If nothing else, it will walk you through making a coherent case for yourself of why you want to pursue a given career, and that coherent presentation is going to make hiring managers stop running and start listening more. Right now if I was hiring a job that was responsible for setting the business direction of a networking product, I'd be worried about hiring you because your record shows you actively running from the business development aspects of your career.
Your Physics degree is certainly not worthless and should not be hidden. You can most likely take on complicated problems, decompose them at a high level, aren't afraid of the unknown, etc. Also the fact that you finished your PhD means that you can stick with something, too.
Re: (Score:3)
"I find networking technology absolutely trivial"
A physicist's "trivial" means something more like "it won't take me more than a year to work out the general theory, and then I might be able to provide a full description somewhere in the next two years, but it isn't TOO hard.".
In other words, he groks networking technology.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
but only for spherical chickens in a vacuum
Re: (Score:3)
I understand the context and the meaning. HR drones and many other people would be confused and/or insulted, as they would take it more as "beneath me" or "barely worth my time". It comes off like this:
"I can understand the formation of galaxies and quantum mechanics. Networking is trivial. Please do yourself a favor and hire me."
Re: (Score:2)
Would mod this up if it wasn't already a 5. PhD's have a deserved reputation for being slow producing, narcissists, with little grasp of reality; and everything that goes with the narcissism: magical thinking, bad boundaries, arrogance, entitlement....
Please remember, most hiring managers don't choose the people that can do a job; they chose the people they aren't threatened by and that managers believe can be influenced regardless of fitness for a position. If people in interviews make the hirers feel i
Scary letters (Score:2, Insightful)
With all due respect, as someone who does hiring, I will say that the letters Phd are what would scare me off. For a job that doesn't require it, it indicates that you are desperate for a job and once you find something better, you're gone. Your resume would end up deleted without so much as a phone call. Also, in my experience, people with graduate engineering/science degrees tend to be more academic and less pragmatic. There is such a thing as too smart in the real world sadly.
Google or Apple is where yo
Not a joke (Score:3)
Move to China, Taiwan or Singapore and study Chinese. A PhD is respected a lot more there than in the US. I'm moving back in 6 months.
what did you expect? (Score:3)
Science careers are extremely tough. Physics is even worse than other fields, with its obsession with youth and large number of graduates. Most physics graduates end up switching fields or working in engineering jobs in research labs. There is a shortage of scientists, but not a shortage of academic research scientists. Who do you think "lied" to you about it? Didn't you bother to look around you in grad school? Count the number of staff vs graduating students?
Trouble is, by switching out of the computer field, you also give the appearance of having burned out on computers. You have skills and experience, but it seems a little much to expect for people to just hand you a career after you made a bunch of unusual career moves.
What's wrong with your current job, though? A DoD and NASA program manager seems like a respectable job for a physics Ph.D.
Put Physics PhD to tasks of Energy from Thorium (Score:2)
There seems to be a grass roots movement growing, to explore options for bringing safer, cheaper-to-build "Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactors" (a.k.a. LFTRs).
If there are no deal-killer issues with getting Energy from Thorium, I'd guess the number of jobs for Physics PhD's will rise.
If you're new to this, cf: Kirk Sorensen's recent talk at TED.com; for details, search YouTube for "Thorium Remix."
Demonstrate that you have feet in both camps (Score:5, Interesting)
There are several comments here stating that the PhD means that hiring managers are scared of those. They are - but only if it's a "pure" PhD. I've got a lots of friends in academia who haven't spent a day in the industry. They are scared witless on what happens if their grant money expires (and are without tenure), since industry is such a different world and hiring managers know that they'd be like fish out of water.
However, you seem to be in a very much similar situation as me. I completed my PhD last year. I happen to also have industry experience, including 9 years of working for an ISP, and a CCIE certificate. From my experience, it's a *very* attractive combination - to an emplyer, it means that you know what's going on in the real world and understand customers, and yet you can also look at the bleeding edge of research and maybe have some insight on how things at the horizon might affect your business in a few years - and maybe capitalize on those opportunities ahead of the curve. I know several people with similar backgrounds - in big companies they are usually located somewhere near CTOs office or similar positions, if not directly in R&D departments, but a few of them (myself included) deal with customers and their networks on a daily basis.
That pause in your resume doesn't really matter *if* you can demonstrate that you haven't been in the ivory tower of universities but can actually deal with real-world problems.
You are applying for the wrong jobs (Score:3)
The big companies: GOOG, MSFT, FB, even twitter can recognize the value of your PhD and give you a job you'll find rewarding. You've clearly got math chops and technical chops so as long as you can communicate well you should be a strong candidate. Look for keywords like researcher, applied researcher, data analyst, decision scientist, technical program manager, etc etc. There are tons of jobs for people like you and you don't have to pigeonhole yourself as pure research (overselling) or network admin (underselling). I spent a long time in academia before finding an industry job I really enjoy that is only tangentially related to my original research expertise.
Re: (Score:2)
I have to agree with this. My company is not very big - less than 1000 FTEs - but we have a ton of PhD staff. There are six other companies in the U.S. who do what we do and every one of them also has a bunch of doctorates. If you came to us with a PhD, it'd be a definite bonus, rather than making us nervous.
Why the difference? No, we're not a software company like those mentioned by robbo, but we are nonetheless highly technical (in the EE field, as it happens) and value people with expertise in technical
There _is_ a shortage (Score:4, Informative)
I went back to school and finished my PhD in Physics. They lied -- there really is no shortage of scientists.
There is a shortage of scientist, just not in the fields that are typically pursued within the hallowed halls of academia. Go ahead and do a PhD in High Energy physics, String theory, Cosmology or Relativistic physics and you'll end up like the person in the GP post. If you study, on the other hand, semiconductor physics, friction, or material physics you'll find half a dozen offers for well paid positions in industry research labs in no time.
Use those skills (Score:2)
With that background, get into the math-heavy end of computing. Get into machine learning, robotics, or quantitative finance. Apply to the big guys: Google, Microsoft, maybe Oracle. They're not afraid of PhDs.
If you want to stay in networking, consider going to Cisco or Blue Coat Systems and working on network traffic management. They need more theory. Cable TV systems for traffic management are a collection of tuning knobs in search of a coherent policy.
Who tries to sell to you? (Score:2)
I hate to say it (Score:5, Interesting)
Physics Phd's were very popular hires for High Frequency Trading firms due to their demonstrated problem solving abilities. This has now extended to some of the Fortune 500's in "Big Data" analysis teams. Stop looking at Physics jobs, and start looking at jobs which will benefit from the skill set you have developed to get your degree. You might be surprised.
You're Lucky (Score:2)
Relocate (Score:3)
Iran is looking, I believe
One word for you... (Score:3)
Learn Android programming. While this advice is well-founded in personal experience, it may also be slightly self serving. [amazon.com]
Scarce? (Score:2)
After the dotcom bubble burst so long ago,when tech jobs were so scarce, ...
I've been continuously employed since I graduated with a BSCS in 1987. Twice with the same small software development company, Unisys, SAIC - both at the NASA Langley Research Center - The New York Times and Northrop Grumman - all as a system programmer and/or system administrator on just about every kind of system from PC to Cray 2. The one time I unintentionally lost my job, I immediately found a part-time programming job at a small local hosting company and a new full-time, at my previous salary, two
Not a problem here... (Score:3)
Now with the appearance of SDN (Software Defined Networking), all your networking skills will become valuable again. It's a new market with the traditional players will fight with the newcomers and innovators.
I know because I'm exactly in that business and I can't hire fast enough.
Been there, done that. (Score:2)
Start your own business (Score:2)
Get up to date then. (Score:2)
You need to hit your network (Score:2)
Basically, every single person you know who might be able to get you a foot in the door in a tech job needs to be on your speed dial. Did you make any friends at school? Maybe you had some science classes with people going for Computer Science type degrees. Don't be ashamed to hit up you relatives, either.
A wise philosopher once said related to a particular job that it is a, "valuable thing, you just don't give it away for nothing." This is why the best people to ask are people who owe you favors, or pe
Re: (Score:3)
I've never had a manager, in IT related positions, that had more tech knowledge than I did. They just had the misfortune of getting sucked into low-level management which I've been able to avoid. Of course, I usually get stuck with the 'project lead' moniker. Upper management is a different story; all sorts there.
Re: (Score:2)
Also BSc means lowish pay and having no degree means you're unemployable human garbage suitable only for work where robots are still too costly. Master's degree is the sweet spot right now.